Why the race to the bottom....?

Feb 6, 1998
11,667
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Honda snowblowers.
Designed, developed, and made in the USA. --Honda website.
Hmmm... Good for Honda for moving production to the USA and employing more US workers.!

However, ours is a Japanese made unit and US made versions were not available when we purchased this one. Knowing Honda I would expect the US built models to be just as good..
 

JRacer

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Aug 9, 2011
1,331
Beneteau 310 Cheney KS (Wichita)
"It's a very funny thing about life; if you refuse to accept anything but the best, you very often get it." W. Somerset Maugham
 
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Jul 12, 2011
1,165
Leopard 40 Jupiter, Florida
Whoa - I apologize, Maine. I did not mean to get you upset. I agree with your initial concept that quality is good, and sometimes is worth paying for in the long run. My error for bringing economics and politics into a boating discussion. Have a peaceful holiday season.
 
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Sep 20, 2006
155
Hunter 49 Mystic CT
Every body wants 3 things when the buy something-
Great quality
Great Service
Great Price
Problem is you usually only get two of the three, some time less.
The nice thing is you get to choose which two you get.
 
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Feb 6, 1998
11,667
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Whoa - I apologize, Maine. I did not mean to get you upset. I agree with your initial concept that quality is good, and sometimes is worth paying for in the long run. My error for bringing economics and politics into a boating discussion. Have a peaceful holiday season.
It's no problem at all I just wish more folks would consider that not all assets folks have are driven by the "apparent income" folks may assume they earn.

My mother was a divorced teacher (8th grade) with no alimony. She sold real estate summers to help bring in a bit extra. She invested in real estate as a side line starting out with a less than 1k investment.. Today she lives in a an extremely expensive (what it is worth) home because she made smart investments & good decisions with her modest income.

She did all this while her peers were blowing their money on *rapidly depreciating assets (*to her and myself) such as new car payments. Today she lives better in retirement than friends of hers who made 10X what she made through her career as a teacher and part time realtor. It's how she chose to use, save & invest her modest income that put her where she is today.

My point is to not judge people by what they have, in relation to what you think they earn...
 
Sep 15, 2016
790
Catalina 22 Minnesota
I use a 8 year old craftsman snowblower 26" and also have no issues. Cant speak for their quality today but thus far with normal maintenance and summarization it starts 1st pull every year. Have yet to use the electric start.

However I used to work on Wind turbines and to clear our access roads we needed something bigger:

168897-10582298.jpg

This was the closest picture I could find. Ours was double headed (much wider & taller) and made by John Deere here in the good old USA. Cleared 1 lane with each pass but with so much snow in the air the tractor would often ice up if it was windy!

Maybe upgrade to one of these. You'll never sheer a pin again and if you happen to hit your neighbors retaining wall... well, you can throw that as well!
 
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Sep 20, 2014
1,320
Rob Legg RL24 Chain O'Lakes
Very simple answer TAXES. A real American owned company pays too much in taxes to be competitive in the consumer market.
I also think it has to do with history. There was a time when unions were very powerful, which ate up a lot of overhead costs that were not spent on building a quality product. That has changed some in recent years as the companies that were over run by the unions folded. Most companies that have unions now are not as crazy as they used to be, so American manufacturing is finally catching up. It will take a long time to recover, but we are very slowly.
BTY: My opinion is based on what I have seen over the last 20 years working for an industrial equipment manufacturer. Having been in those factories over the years, I have seen the changes. The unions are there, but they are not crazy like they used to be.
 

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Anyone who endures a Maine or Michigan winter has my respect...I thought y’all packed the truck campers, hitched your boats and headed down to the Keys! Whereupon this conversation would be in regard to cheap generators and the evils of ethanol! But never mind that, let’s talk snowblowers!

This is a snowblower:
105FED35-3B07-4AC3-91D2-8ADD6A409B17.jpeg

Industrial Acme engine, all-gear drive two-wheel BCS tractor fitted with a snowblower implement to a splined-shaft PTO. It was built to move the snows of the southern Alps by a factory full of skilled Italian union tradesmen who have been building them since the 1950s. This particular unit is 32 years old and has seen nothing but regular oil changes and lubrication. Zero repairs other than a few fuel lines and control cables. It still relocates snow to an adjacent zip code via a single stage system spinning at something near 4,000 RPM. A serious industrial grade tool.

When I bought this tractor it came with a similarly stout tiller and at a cost that would have purchased 3 Troy-Bilt tillers. The OLD Troy Bilt, not the current junk. The latest model will set you back the equivalent of about 5 of those consumer snowblowers that Homer sells. But of course this one converts to a syklebar cutter in the summer. The difference of course is the designed Duty-Cycle. Industrial machines are designed to be run hundreds of hours at high-load demands. I figure this machine and it’s various implements have cost me $50 / year and paid for itself many times over by clearing the lane to get to work, tend the gardens, and cut the brush.

My small-engine guy wants to buy it from me. I told him he’s in the Will to receive it. Did you know that the Duty-Cycle of the small engines Homer sells is 50 hours? Two seasons of lawn mowing, 5 years of pressure washing...the BCS has about 1000 hours on it and doesn’t use any oil. You prime it and it starts first pull. It couldn’t care less about ethanol fuel.

This is a long way around the barn to say that when you are blowing snow, tilling soil, or brushing you are doing extreme load work and need a machine matched to that Duty Cycle. It is the same reason our boats are best moved by industrial Diesel engines and why the Atomic 4 has gone the way of the Dodo bird. Sure, you can often get the job done with a disposable machine but sometimes you can’t and then you come to understand the value proposition of having the right tool for the job, and finding a way to budget it.
 
Dec 19, 2014
57
Tartan 30 Baltimore
Gunni, I might argue the point about the Atomic 4. It is no longer produced due to the switch to diesel for safety reasons regarding gas engines, (perceived or real) but believe me it wasn't because the A4 wasn't up to the task. There are plenty of them still pushing boats around.
 
Jun 15, 2012
694
BAVARIA C57 Greenport, NY
Wonder why Honda power equipment is usually much more expensive than competition whereas Honda automobiles are competitively priced?
 
Oct 31, 2012
464
Hunter 2008 H25 Lake Wabamun
Up here in the Great White North we get lots of snow and very cold temps.
My little Honda has been working like its designed to for 20 years with only fluids and rubber impellers replaced.
The only way we can get better quality North American machines is to simply not buy them and the manufactures will figure it out. As someone else already stated, we tend to look at price first and quality second. Maybe we can convince Honda to start building Sailboats? :)
 

Gunni

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Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Wonder why Honda power equipment is usually much more expensive than competition whereas Honda automobiles are competitively priced?
Market placement. Honda stays dominant in the auto market by carefully balancing quality, performance and price - toward price. Honda stays dominant in the smaller power equipment market by balancing quality, performance and price - toward performance. Honda transformed the motorcycle industry by owning all three - quality, performance and price. It was the unyielding vision of Soichiro Honda who insisted upon corporate excellence.
 

RussC

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Sep 11, 2015
1,578
Merit 22- Oregon lakes
Mainsail. Before I sold my business and retired I owned and operated an outdoor power equipment business for 31 years, so I fully understand your frustration. I had the same frustrations, but also never heard fact based answers. my best guess is one of observation and speculation more than any actual fact, but I have noted that American CEOs and upper management are generally MUCH better paid than their Japanese counterparts, so I assume the simple answer is greed. Why any CEO feels they need, or why any corporation feel they are worth, their 20Mil a year salary + benies is beyond my level of comprehension. I would do the job for only one mil a year and not feel short changed.
 
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jwing

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Jun 5, 2014
503
ODay Mariner Guntersville
Why any CEO feels they need, or why any corporation feel they are worth, their 20Mil a year salary + benies is beyond my level of comprehension.
You need to understand the players. CEO salaries are set by the Board of Directors. The Board of Directors is made up of CEOs, present and past, of other companies. It's a good ol' boys network. Executives float around from corporation to corporation. Even after an executive has failed at one company, if he has friends on the Board at another company, he will succeed the previous guy who either failed or found a higher paying gig. And of course he will have friends because he also sits on the Boards of other corporations. It's like musical chairs, but even the losers come out wealthy. They are all stroking each other, paying each other exorbitant salaries and other benefits while manipulating figures to drive stock prices up and down. Board members also get handsomely paid. Smart executives concentrate mostly on gaudy short-term results and making as many contacts in the good ol' boy network as possible. The end game is to retire from day-to-day operations and sit on several boards in order to get paid lots of money to attend quarterly meetings.
 
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RussC

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Sep 11, 2015
1,578
Merit 22- Oregon lakes
You need to understand the players. CEO salaries are set by the Board of Directors. The Board of Directors is made up of CEOs, present and past, of other companies. It's a good ol' boys network. Executives float around from corporation to corporation. Even after an executive has failed at one company, if he has friends on the Board at another company, he will succeed the previous guy who either failed or found a higher paying gig. And of course he will have friends because he also sits on the Boards of other corporations. It's like musical chairs, but even the losers come out wealthy. They are all stroking each other, paying each other exorbitant salaries and other benefits while manipulating figures to drive stock prices up and down. Board members also get handsomely paid. Smart executives concentrate mostly on gaudy short-term results and making as many contacts in the good ol' boy network as possible. The end game is to retire from day-to-day operations and sit on several boards in order to get paid lots of money to attend quarterly meetings.
In my next life I hope to play the game better ;)
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,733
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
Could always look for a used one of these. ;-)
Are they made in America?
Probably last a few seasons, at least until they are rendered obsolete by better tech.
Do you all see this happening with sailboats? Are the European or Asian manufacturers out selling, out engineering the American designed/built boats? Other threads that have touched on this subject seem to conclude that this may be so, at least, that there is something to be concerned about.
Given that this is an international forum, the concern for American manufacturing may not hit home for everyone. I'd be interested to hear how European and other markets see these issues.
Snow blowers aside, what issues of quality vs price look like elsewhere?
- Will (Dragonfly)
 
Jan 27, 2008
3,045
ODay 35 Beaufort, NC
Price is also a function of volume. Those cheap big box units are typically all made by a third party then lick and stick'd with decals of the seller. Thus volume is a lot higher than a brand like Honda. Quality can be looked at as two types, manufacturing defects related to the production and distribution process, or the quality of the design to satisfy customer desired attributes such as longevity and functionality. Honda seems to do well with both. The best snow removal method is wait a while and it all melts. This is the method used in the south and is pretty foolproof. Just fill the tub with water, buy all the bread and bottled water and hunker down until it goes away.
 
Oct 1, 2007
1,857
Boston Whaler Super Sport Pt. Judith
Wow ! This thread really took off. Well, I guess I am in the tiny minority who believes US engineers, designers, and workers are the best in the world, certainly they are the most productive. I own an MTD snow blower which I originally purchased in 1995, when we also lived in Maine. MTD is an American company but I imagine they manufacture some or all of their units overseas, driven there by everything that drove most of our companies overseas for assembly of their products. It has served me well for all these years. Just recently I took it in to the local power equipment guy and told him to "go through it" and fix anything that needs fixing, which included it's first ever oil change. The bill was $82. The thing starts immediately, warms up fast, and slings whatever mix of snow we have as far as I need it.
I feel obligated to weigh in on the CEO bashing branch of this thread as well. Personally, I don't really care much about how much money CEOs of real companies earn so long as they run their company efficiently, pay their employees well, take care of their employees with benefits, and turn a profit that in the case of public companies, is rewarded by a healthy stock performance. What does bother me a lot though is when a CEO "retires" after x number of years when the company declined in all measures of performance, employees lost their jobs and pensions, entire small towns are devastated by loss of a manufacturing facility, and he/she walks out with a separation bonus of many millions of dollars. That scenario sucks, but it is much more frequent than one can imagine.