Why re-glass the V222 iron keel?

Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
Here is a topic that will no doubt spark many opinions. I've stripped my keel to the iron. Yes once she was out the angle grinder applied, there was no stopping. Seems the entire keel had been compromised, leaving only a scant few inches on the side I thought was "good" untouched by rust. "I'll save this section," I kept telling myself with no luck. If I tapped it and it moved, it came off. I did keep all the edges and major piece in case I want to use some of the bits for templates or even "re-use" backed with some new glass cloth and resin.

That being said, the keel is clean now. All the molded and formed bits removed and all the surface rust removed (or most of it, don't be the guy that tells me the iron starts oxidizing seconds after ground clean, I get that) I've got all the major "cancer" off the keel.

IMG_5997.JPG


So here is my question. Why "re-form" it at all?
Why not grind it clean, navy jelly it and paint it with oil based anti rusting or bottom paint and put it back in. I mean I understand I'm going to get a bit more drag, but the basic shape is there. I've used less well formed keels in smaller boats. I mean maybe add the leading and tailing edge and some cloth. I don't want it to rattle around in the trunk so I would reform the area where it attaches. Can I make my own version? Does it have to follow spec? I have all the drawings, I get it. But, what happens to performance? Would it even be noticeable? I mean the PO apparently sailed it with big chunks missing.

Has anyone ever done this? What's your experiences? I see a lot of "not so aerodynamic / hydrodynamic" keel designs out there. At worst, sail the season and see what happens. I can't believe it would affect performance to the point of making the boat "un sailable." Thought?

IMG_6005.JPG
 
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Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
I really can't believe no one has an opinion on this! I thought this topic would have sent some folks racing for their heart meds! I have found that a few folks have sailed the "raw iron keel" without knowing so. I've combed the post and found at least one instance of this. I've also seen some swing keels in my reasearch that are cast iron and have very little "foil" or form at all. Many look like slabs of iron rounded a bit on the end.

I've also found some supporting post that say the amount of drag created by the square edges is minimal and that more drag is created by the trunk "mouth" or opening than could ever be created by a "blunt" keel. Remember, I'm not going to race this boat. It's a cruiser not a racer.

So, I have assembled all the old pieces of the LE and TE and could re-use them (and am actually leaning toward this). But, again can I make my own design? Can I use the edges and form the other parts slightly thinner? Does it have to follow factory spec? Come on I know some one is ready to tear me a new one over this subject! lol Let me have it!
 

JamieV

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Jun 22, 2018
5
Macgregor V222 Any New York lake
0E1C3306-03EE-4CB0-8C99-1DE4A11ECCB2.jpeg
Todd, unfortunately I’m in the same boat, lol. If you could post some pictures of the removed pieces to give me an idea of the original shape I would greatly appreciate it. My plan is to screed fillets around the welded plates and build up the center a bit to give some assemblage of a foil shape. I have been taking my ques from the Stingey Sailors website, all the projects are for a Catalina 22 but the information is relevant, and he has a detailed explanation of materials and process he used to restore his keel. Good luck and I’d really love to see your progress photos, I will surely do the same when I’m further along
 
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Likes: Todd Atchison
Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
Hi Todd

Well you are neck deep in it now. :clap: But when you are done, you will have a lot of confidence in your boat.

I've done this type of repair three separate times. A magregor V21, a magregor V2-22 and a Balboa 26. I left the V21 as you are suggesting and in my opinion the boat was noticeably slow. My V22 and Balboa 26 were fast, sleek sailing boats so I do think it matters and on a light air day, you will be glad for the extra performance.

Again I'm going to direct you to my photo albums found on my profile page. This time go to the Balboa 26 restoration page and then the second page of pictures there. This was a beastly 1200lb swing keel keel that looked much worse than yours does now. I did not recover the keel with cloth. Instead I treated the iron with the standard rust neutralizers, then a few layers of barrier coat, then I shaped the keel with epoxy fairing compound...it turned out very nice and it was not difficult. I got the rough shape using the squeegees you see used with bondo, then finished with the orbital sander. Followed with a few more layers of barrier coat and finally a few coatings of enamel based paint.

Not counting the time between paintings, and epoxy cure times, the entire job can be done in an afternoon.
 
Jan 19, 2010
12,362
Hobie 16 & Rhodes 22 Skeeter Charleston
One more thing... in this pic



You might notice that the top of the keel (the part that sits in the keel trunk) was treated exactly as you are suggesting. I simply rust treated, barrier coated and painted it. It does not see the water anyway so why bother with shaping it. I also was careful to try my best at an NACA foil shape. You want the maximum thickness to be 1/5th of the distance back from the leading edge.
 
Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
Yes we are at the exact same point JamieV. I have some great pics I'll post tonight. I placed all the pieces back on the keel after removing the rust. It's like being a forinsic detective! lol I feel like those guys who put plans back together after they have crashed.

My plan is to use those pieces to form my edges, cutting them down so only the edge itself is left. Then fair and form back with epoxy. I'll keep you in the loop.
 
Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
Here are the pieces from the good side, the other side was nearly completely gone:

IMG_6022.JPG


IMG_6017.JPG
 
Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
JamieV - it looks like your "inner keel" or the iron portion in the center was simply glassed over without placing an angle on the leading and tailing edge. Are the edges blunt with some fabric and glass over them? Or are they
"formed" into edges? The LE will be a bit more blunt than the TE (picture below).


IMG_6075.PNG
 

JamieV

.
Jun 22, 2018
5
Macgregor V222 Any New York lake
Todd, when I got the boat the keel was already out and a very poor attempt to re-finish had been started, using automotive bondo. What’s left is the remains of that effort. I’m starting from ground zero, and your photos have been very helpful to guide my restoration. I plan to epoxy the entire keel (rust prevention) apply fillets to the inner plates, then build up the center to approximate a foil shape and finally glass the LE for surface integrity. I’m having it sand blasted this week, then epoxy. I’ll post pics once that’s done and subsequent updates as I get the fairing applied. Post your progress photos as well I’m eager to see how your planning to give yours shape.
 

pateco

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Aug 12, 2014
2,207
Hunter 31 (1983) Pompano Beach FL
Closed cell foam , some 1/4" ply templates and a home made hot wire knife make it easy to shape the right foil. Do the foil shape in workable sized sections, glue them all together, then cover in layers of fiberglass, fair and paint.


 
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Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
I've altered my plan a bit. After a great deal of research, advice and opinion I'm going to use the pieces that remained after clearing the keel of rust. I kept all of the peices and really believe it's the best plan for keeping the keel form and for building the leading edge and tailing edge. It will drastically reduce the amount of filler needed and hell... it is fiberglass so once the new resin sets up it's good as new.

IMG_6086.PNG


I know I really should sandblast it too, but I want to sail and based on my research everything says the rust will return no matter what I do, it's the nature of the design so I'll be doing it agian in five years anyway. So I coated with Naval Jelly and will apply another couple of coats of rust preventing paint and start glueing this thing back together, then fill, then paint. From a "foil" perspective, this keel's a slab anyway! There really isn't a foil to speak of, just the most basic of form along the LE and TE.

IMG_6087.PNG


Who knows, I may find a replacement or want to devote an entire winter to it down the road. In the meantime, I see nothing wroing with doing the best I can and getting in the water. This boat will be on the trailer 95% of it's future life so the rust cycle will slow dramatically anyway. I get the sense that a lot of the past rust and delamination happened because the PO let this boat set in a slip for years. Just a my thoughts....
 
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JamieV

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Jun 22, 2018
5
Macgregor V222 Any New York lake
Todd, any progress on you keel? Here are the photos of my keel post sandblasting and one coat or epoxy. One more coat of epoxy then filler, fairing and paint. Did you get a chance to photograph the pop-top curtain? I’ve been scouring the internet and there’s nothing out there for a boat of our vintage.
 

Attachments

Jun 3, 2004
1,863
Macgregor 25 So. Cal.
This is a drawing for my 25 and as near as I can check they might be the same. Be sure to check the dimensions. The early tops opened up and back the 26 S and D's opened forward.

 
Jan 25, 2017
147
Macgregor V222 Kentucky Lake
Jamie I'll post some pics of my canvas enclsure. I'm coming off a 40 hour non-stop weekend of last minute fixes. The keel is done and I'll post some final pics soon.