Which to choose. My dilemma!

[Phlbald]

I am new to this forum as well to sailing. Looking at 2 Catalina 30’s as my first boat. One has been well cared for with almost all original equipment, sails, lack of electronics family boat for past 30 years. Second boat is cheaper with upgraded electronics, electric windlass, Spinnaker, extra sails. The first boat goes out almost every weekend while the second hasn’t left the dock in 18 months.
I guess my dilemma is which boat to make a offer on and get surveyed. The second boat has a owner desperate to sail for health reasons it’s cheaper with better extras but neglected for almost 2 years now. The first well cared for but completely basic that would require several upgrades. I apologize if this doesn’t make any sense but just looking for any advice or suggestions like I said I’m a new to the sailing world and trying to figure all of this out to do the best I can. Thank you.

 

[Cat 310 #1 in GA]

If one boat has original equipment and systems then you should realistically accept that they will all have to be replaced in the next few years. Condition of boat and also condition & age of all the systems will tell you how much you will need to spend after you purchase the boat. Expect 50% of your purchase price to replace old systems and equipment.

 

[Gunni]

With little experience to go on pay extra to have some trade specialists look the engine, electrical, rigging, water and waste systems over. That could mean doubling your survey budget but will save you a bunch of disappointment. 18 months at the dock could mean nothing more than a bottom paint job or a whole lot more. A ‘well-cared for” boat can mean the owner did a lot of hack modifications and improper maintenance. A pro can help you sort them out.

 

[jssailem]

@Phlbald Welcome to the forum.
It is a dilemma faced by new and experienced boaters. @Gunni has given you very good advice. It will save you loads of money in the long run of boat ownership.

Boat buying is not like buying a car. All original or loaded with gadgets do not influence the price in the same way as they do with cars. You need to look at the systems and their condition. Will they need to be replaced after the purchase to make the boat safe for the sailing you plan to do.

With no experience in sailing, what is drawing you to either of the Catalina's?

They are great boats, but may or may not be the type of sailing boat for you. Take a minute to identify what you want to do with a boat. maybe it is just going out for the day 6-10 times in the summer. day-sailor that you can trailer to the lake and save the marina fees might be a better fit.

 

[BigEasy]

We really can't give you much advice because there are so many variables to consider, even when comparing two similar boats. Unfortunately, with a lack of sailboat knowledge, you are going to have to rely on professionals for guidance. It would help to study the reviews on these model boats regarding attributes as well as common problems. If the boats are listed by a broker, you are going to be required to make an offer and agree on price, before being allowed to survey and sea trial. Just make sure, in writing, that you can back out of the deal if you are dissatisfied with any aspect of the survey / sea trial. Again, if these boats are listed by a broker, perhaps you should contact an independent broker to inspect both boats with you, to get some insight before making an offer and incurring the cost of an expensive survey/quick haul/seatrial needlessly. There are inspection outlines available that you can use in the presence of an independent broker that may shed some light on potential problems. By all means, do not , make your decision solely based on input from a broker; you really should have the boat(s) surveyed by an independent certified surveyor, not of the broker's choosing. Better to incur the cost of a survey or two, prior to purchasing, so that you know what you're getting in to and to help realize some of the repair and upgrade costs that will be necessary to enjoy the boat safely.

 

[Phlbald]

Thanks everyone for your input. I appreciate all the replies.

 

[jssailem]

Come back and share what your experience was and which path you chose.

 

[Apex]

imo all original is a lesser chance of hacked mods like gunni mentioned. righting previous wrongs in addition to upgrading is frustrating. in addition poor attention to detail often means poorly performed or deferred maintenance.

 

[Will Gilmore]

Thanks everyone for your input. I appreciate all the replies.

Welcome to the sailboatowners forums, Phlbald. If you buy a sailboat and stay on as a member of this community, you will get great support in whatever you decide to purchase. jssailem, has given you the best first step advice. Gunni is also wise in his advice, as well as everyone else. You need to be certain of what you are looking for, not just, "I would like a sailboat and these two are here so which one should I choose."
Maybe you have already done that assessment. In that case, help us to help you. Let us know what you want out of sailing. Let us know who you are. Do you have time, skill and inclination for maintenance and repair? Do you want to sail over-night, day sails, navigate to the islands, liveaboard for a week or more at a time, berth your boat at a local marina or haul her home on a trailer? We also need more information about the two boats, are they listed online? Is there a link to their respective ads? We can tell you what we would do, but we are not you. What you should do is not going to be the same.
Take a really deep look into those boats and understand that the current owner may not know what he's talking about. When I bought my boat, the previous owner said the boat was ready to sail, his deceased father had kept the boat in immaculate condition. It wasn't even close. It wasn't that he lied to me, I think he just didn't know. It's pretty common, so you have to be the judge.
I hope you stay a member of SBO. You will get what you need out of being here.

-Will (Dragonfly)

 

[Phlbald]

Thanks Will. Yes I’m sure I came across a little vague. I have always had ski boats throughout my life most with inboard gas engines. Yes I’m new to Diesel engines. My wife and I have chartered and fell in love with sailing. We are really looking for a boat to learn on, not just sailing but upkeep and maintenance. We do plan on purchasing a larger boat to cruise on in about 4 years. We will mostly do day sails around the Puget Sound for the next few years then retire and head to the Gulf coast. As far as the boats go we have been aboard both of these and several more. Yes I have gone in and dug around with a flashlight checking the things I know to check (which probably is not all that should be checked). I am teachable and anxious to learn. Hopefully I’ll also get better at asking the right questions as well . This is a process we are committed to and will continue to work. Thank you again for the input.

 

[jviss]

I would lean more towards a well kept, unmodified boat. Like the one you mention, all original, no electronics. That way you can update with new electronics that suit your needs, and do it correctly, without having to un-do older, and potentially poorly done mods.

That said, a boat that was outfitted recently and well done has a lot going for it!

 

[BigEasy]

Catalina 30's have been around for quite a long time. Well found boat for its intended use; Its small enough to handle easily and big enough to enjoy for weekend trips along the coast and bays for a family of four. With some professional guidance, you can make an educated decision as to which boat is better and suits your needs and finances. Its a good boat to learn on and lets face it; we've all started at ground zero in acquiring sailing skills as well as maintenance and repair savy.
Good luck with the search and please let us know the outcome.

 

[Gunni]

Get a buyers really good buyer’s broker with a demonstrated work ethic and lots of connections. Work through the buyer’s broker.

 

[Phlbald]

Sorry you’re right. They are both 1984 C 30 standard rigs with the same universal 25 engine. I have crawled through both flashlight in hand. One used for family day trips the second used for weekend racing. I know that doesn’t help you much. I guess my biggest concern being new to sailing was and is a boat sitting in the water neglected for 18 months or more and potential problems that might cause. My experience with boats is limited to inboard water ski and wakeboard boats for the last 40 years. I’m sure I’ll learn more as I go along. So many more systems on a sailboat than I have dealt with before. Thanks again for your honesty. I look forward to your advice as I learn more about the right questions to ask.

 

[Phlbald]

PH

I’ll be painfully blunt. Take it as a wake-up.

You’ve given us enough information to provide any semblance of a meaningful (to us or you) recommendation, as asking “which main dish should I order to go with my wine.” Do the hard work and provide facts and precise info, do a flashlight self survey and a hoard of photos on each if you want useful input, provide your complete situation. Or let the professions do their thing. Fer chrissake you haven’t even told us if they are a mk-I, mk-Ii, mk-III, TR, SR, FK WK, ages, upgrades, repairs, mods, blah blah blah.

Also this is probably the same answer I would give one of my residents. Thank you.

 

[jssailem]

A boat a boat sitting in the water is not necessarily a bad thing. Depending on the bottom before the 18 months.

 

[weekendrken]

With absolutely no facts about either boat’s precise conditions, equipment, location, mods, engines, sails, MK-?, sailing use (both POs and buyer intention, asking price, pics, bla bla bla, it’s just jaw flappin and speculations. d:-0

My motto is always “help us help you.”

 

[jviss]

One used for family day trips the second used for weekend racing.

"the second" being the one that's been neglected for 18 months?

Are there listings for these on yachtworld?

 

[Phlbald]

Thanks. Same year same model boats both 1984 C 30 standard rig boats. Both with the same Universal 25 engine. The first was a family sailing boat for 30 years same owner. #2 boat has many upgrades in electronics as well as winches, electric windlass etc.. was mainly used for weekend racing. The first boat is for sale by owner the second through a broker. There is a difference in price of about $4000 between the two with the more upgraded boat being cheaper. I’m actually working hard to figure out why? I will be going through the cheaper one again this week. I actually sailed on the first boat with its owner this weekend. I really am trying to learn the right questions to ask from this forum as well as when looking at these boats. Thank you for taking time to respond and helping me learn.

 

[jssailem]

Price is subjective. Sometimes it is mearly that the one owner wants to sell and the other needs to sell. The broker may have given the 2nd owner a more realistic view of local prices than the #1 boat.
Racing brings with it the question of strain. Checking the mast, the rigging, the chainplates, the rudder, the sails, all things that racing to the edge can put under strain. You mention the electronics. Boat electronics are aged the moment they are installed on the boat. Just like computers. The developer is in the details. What precisely are the electronics and how are they integrated?
From the sound of it you are favoring the #2 boat. Why?
Certainly from the short list of goals you stated, the electric windlass, if serviceable, would be a plus.
Guessing here, in the past 18 months the #2 boat has not been in races. Perhaps that is why the boat appears to be discounted. The owner is facing another winter of marina bills.