Where are all the small Catalina owners?

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Jun 3, 2004
730
Catalina 250 Wing Keel Eugene, OR
It's history

The big to-do is over and things have settled down on the forum. There is no conspiracy, there is no intrigue. Just a volunteer association with officers doing their best. C25-Observer, you obviously have issues that you are not willing to share. Your fear of identifying yourself is sad and says more about you than anyone else. These days the forum IS the thing. It is a wonderful way to share information and be a community. Best of luck to you. I'm done with this thread. John, see you back at the forum!
 
Jun 3, 2004
730
Catalina 250 Wing Keel Eugene, OR
It's history

The big to-do is over and things have settled down on the forum. There is no conspiracy, there is no intrigue. Just a volunteer association with officers doing their best. C25-Observer, you obviously have issues that you are not willing to share. Your fear of identifying yourself is sad and says more about you than anyone else. These days the forum IS the thing. It is a wonderful way to share information and be a community. Best of luck to you. I'm done with this thread. John, see you back at the forum!
 
C

C25-Observer

Numers-Ouch-That will Leave A Mark

Watching John try to find a private place to discuss "numbers" intrigued us. So... We made sure the Commodore was compelled to openly publish the "numbers" to the PAYING members. So... Let’s do the numbers. This should be fun. Duane wrote; "2 years ago I recall that out of 712 members we found that about 58% of the membership had a forum login. 40% of that number posted at least once in the past year." The current numbers show a membership of 511 members. Hello!!?? 511 members from 712 members two years ago? That would be a decrease of mm er.. well allot!! But let's take this a bit further. By Duane's calculations; 58% of 511 members is 296 members, 40% of that number is 118 members posting on the forum. And by Duane's own admission some merely post once a year. These are the sellers that use the forum to list their boats and equipment for sale. We claim that that 70 members use the forum on a REGULAR BASIS! We not only stand by that NUMBER but are giving a HUGE margin to the pro forum nitwits. That NUMBER is probably substantially less but we will concede the number. That makes the GOVERNANCE of the assoc. controlled by less than 35% of the Paying membership. Claiming the forum represents the PAYING membership is dishonest. Watching the membership diminish year by year is the direct result of the actions of the leadership of the association. C25-Observer http://c25-250-observer.blogspot.com/ We welcome comments, both pro and con, on the blog.
 
C

C25-Observer

Numers-Ouch-That will Leave A Mark

Watching John try to find a private place to discuss "numbers" intrigued us. So... We made sure the Commodore was compelled to openly publish the "numbers" to the PAYING members. So... Let’s do the numbers. This should be fun. Duane wrote; "2 years ago I recall that out of 712 members we found that about 58% of the membership had a forum login. 40% of that number posted at least once in the past year." The current numbers show a membership of 511 members. Hello!!?? 511 members from 712 members two years ago? That would be a decrease of mm er.. well allot!! But let's take this a bit further. By Duane's calculations; 58% of 511 members is 296 members, 40% of that number is 118 members posting on the forum. And by Duane's own admission some merely post once a year. These are the sellers that use the forum to list their boats and equipment for sale. We claim that that 70 members use the forum on a REGULAR BASIS! We not only stand by that NUMBER but are giving a HUGE margin to the pro forum nitwits. That NUMBER is probably substantially less but we will concede the number. That makes the GOVERNANCE of the assoc. controlled by less than 35% of the Paying membership. Claiming the forum represents the PAYING membership is dishonest. Watching the membership diminish year by year is the direct result of the actions of the leadership of the association. C25-Observer http://c25-250-observer.blogspot.com/ We welcome comments, both pro and con, on the blog.
 
C

C25-Observer

Numers-Ouch-That will Leave A Mark

Watching John try to find a private place to discuss "numbers" intrigued us. So... We made sure the Commodore was compelled to openly publish the "numbers" to the PAYING members. So... Let’s do the numbers. This should be fun. Duane wrote; "2 years ago I recall that out of 712 members we found that about 58% of the membership had a forum login. 40% of that number posted at least once in the past year." The current numbers show a membership of 511 members. Hello!!?? 511 members from 712 members two years ago? That would be a decrease of mm er.. well allot!! But let's take this a bit further. By Duane's calculations; 58% of 511 members is 296 members, 40% of that number is 118 members posting on the forum. And by Duane's own admission some merely post once a year. These are the sellers that use the forum to list their boats and equipment for sale. We claim that that 70 members use the forum on a REGULAR BASIS! We not only stand by that NUMBER but are giving a HUGE margin to the pro forum nitwits. That NUMBER is probably substantially less but we will concede the number. That makes the GOVERNANCE of the assoc. controlled by less than 35% of the Paying membership. Claiming the forum represents the PAYING membership is dishonest. Watching the membership diminish year by year is the direct result of the actions of the leadership of the association. C25-Observer http://c25-250-observer.blogspot.com/ We welcome comments, both pro and con, on the blog.
 
C

C25-Observer

Numers-Ouch-That will Leave A Mark

Watching John try to find a private place to discuss "numbers" intrigued us. So... We made sure the Commodore was compelled to openly publish the "numbers" to the PAYING members. So... Let’s do the numbers. This should be fun. Duane wrote; "2 years ago I recall that out of 712 members we found that about 58% of the membership had a forum login. 40% of that number posted at least once in the past year." The current numbers show a membership of 511 members. Hello!!?? 511 members from 712 members two years ago? That would be a decrease of mm er.. well allot!! But let's take this a bit further. By Duane's calculations; 58% of 511 members is 296 members, 40% of that number is 118 members posting on the forum. And by Duane's own admission some merely post once a year. These are the sellers that use the forum to list their boats and equipment for sale. We claim that that 70 members use the forum on a REGULAR BASIS! We not only stand by that NUMBER but are giving a HUGE margin to the pro forum nitwits. That NUMBER is probably substantially less but we will concede the number. That makes the GOVERNANCE of the assoc. controlled by less than 35% of the Paying membership. Claiming the forum represents the PAYING membership is dishonest. Watching the membership diminish year by year is the direct result of the actions of the leadership of the association. C25-Observer http://c25-250-observer.blogspot.com/ We welcome comments, both pro and con, on the blog.
 
R

Ray Bowles

When engaged in an argument with a fool..........

..be sure he is not similarly engaged. Wise old saying from God knows where. Observer, Why not quit the old organization, start your own super organization or simply take your toys home and play by yourself. KD4AO already said he was sorry for asking his question in the first place, besides you didn't answer his querry. You simply commondeered his request for your pontification. ENOUGH! Ray
 
R

Ray Bowles

When engaged in an argument with a fool..........

..be sure he is not similarly engaged. Wise old saying from God knows where. Observer, Why not quit the old organization, start your own super organization or simply take your toys home and play by yourself. KD4AO already said he was sorry for asking his question in the first place, besides you didn't answer his querry. You simply commondeered his request for your pontification. ENOUGH! Ray
 
R

Ray Bowles

When engaged in an argument with a fool..........

..be sure he is not similarly engaged. Wise old saying from God knows where. Observer, Why not quit the old organization, start your own super organization or simply take your toys home and play by yourself. KD4AO already said he was sorry for asking his question in the first place, besides you didn't answer his querry. You simply commondeered his request for your pontification. ENOUGH! Ray
 
R

Ray Bowles

When engaged in an argument with a fool..........

..be sure he is not similarly engaged. Wise old saying from God knows where. Observer, Why not quit the old organization, start your own super organization or simply take your toys home and play by yourself. KD4AO already said he was sorry for asking his question in the first place, besides you didn't answer his querry. You simply commondeered his request for your pontification. ENOUGH! Ray
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,760
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Association Membership

I have been following this with deep concern, not only about how incorrect it is for your association having this cat-fight here "in public" but this recent statement: "Watching the membership diminish year by year is the direct result of the actions of the leadership of the association." Direct result? Hardly. You'll find that membership is not in any way proportional to the activities of the officers of any given organization. Groups tend to expand and contract based on many factors beyond the efforts of even the best of leadership, and sometimes even the worst. Many associations are faced with the free Internet message boards compared to "paying" membership, who essentially receive a quarterly magazine for their dues. That magazine represents over 75% of the costs for most Catalina Associations. The largest "issue" many associations now have is the increasing cost of Mainsheet magazine, which some consider to have become somewhat dated because of the "rise" of the immediacy of the Internet. One of the most important features of the magazine was its technical data and ability to distribute information to paying membership. Answers that used to take months now takes hours because of Internet message boards and e-lists. The rising cost, due to Mainsheet's singular decision to raise rates because of color copy, is not the fault of the leadership of any individual Association. Membership may also find the magazine irrelevant due to the Internet and choose not to pay membership fees for a magazine when they can obtain the same or better answers on the Internet. Your association is not alone in attempting to address this issue. Maintaining and increasing membership is usually the goal of most Associations. Investing time and effort is something the officers choose to do, and an elected set of officers in our experience do not represent power hungry ogres, but rather the mere handful of people in any large group who personally commit their own time and effort as essentially volunteers, well beyond the sniping of disappointed individuals. Either join 'em and contribute, or cool it. That said, why not take your fight over to your own web blog or even the C25 website, since there were 53 hits on this very subject there earlier this afternoon. This belongs elsewhere.
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,760
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Association Membership

I have been following this with deep concern, not only about how incorrect it is for your association having this cat-fight here "in public" but this recent statement: "Watching the membership diminish year by year is the direct result of the actions of the leadership of the association." Direct result? Hardly. You'll find that membership is not in any way proportional to the activities of the officers of any given organization. Groups tend to expand and contract based on many factors beyond the efforts of even the best of leadership, and sometimes even the worst. Many associations are faced with the free Internet message boards compared to "paying" membership, who essentially receive a quarterly magazine for their dues. That magazine represents over 75% of the costs for most Catalina Associations. The largest "issue" many associations now have is the increasing cost of Mainsheet magazine, which some consider to have become somewhat dated because of the "rise" of the immediacy of the Internet. One of the most important features of the magazine was its technical data and ability to distribute information to paying membership. Answers that used to take months now takes hours because of Internet message boards and e-lists. The rising cost, due to Mainsheet's singular decision to raise rates because of color copy, is not the fault of the leadership of any individual Association. Membership may also find the magazine irrelevant due to the Internet and choose not to pay membership fees for a magazine when they can obtain the same or better answers on the Internet. Your association is not alone in attempting to address this issue. Maintaining and increasing membership is usually the goal of most Associations. Investing time and effort is something the officers choose to do, and an elected set of officers in our experience do not represent power hungry ogres, but rather the mere handful of people in any large group who personally commit their own time and effort as essentially volunteers, well beyond the sniping of disappointed individuals. Either join 'em and contribute, or cool it. That said, why not take your fight over to your own web blog or even the C25 website, since there were 53 hits on this very subject there earlier this afternoon. This belongs elsewhere.
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,760
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Association Membership

I have been following this with deep concern, not only about how incorrect it is for your association having this cat-fight here "in public" but this recent statement: "Watching the membership diminish year by year is the direct result of the actions of the leadership of the association." Direct result? Hardly. You'll find that membership is not in any way proportional to the activities of the officers of any given organization. Groups tend to expand and contract based on many factors beyond the efforts of even the best of leadership, and sometimes even the worst. Many associations are faced with the free Internet message boards compared to "paying" membership, who essentially receive a quarterly magazine for their dues. That magazine represents over 75% of the costs for most Catalina Associations. The largest "issue" many associations now have is the increasing cost of Mainsheet magazine, which some consider to have become somewhat dated because of the "rise" of the immediacy of the Internet. One of the most important features of the magazine was its technical data and ability to distribute information to paying membership. Answers that used to take months now takes hours because of Internet message boards and e-lists. The rising cost, due to Mainsheet's singular decision to raise rates because of color copy, is not the fault of the leadership of any individual Association. Membership may also find the magazine irrelevant due to the Internet and choose not to pay membership fees for a magazine when they can obtain the same or better answers on the Internet. Your association is not alone in attempting to address this issue. Maintaining and increasing membership is usually the goal of most Associations. Investing time and effort is something the officers choose to do, and an elected set of officers in our experience do not represent power hungry ogres, but rather the mere handful of people in any large group who personally commit their own time and effort as essentially volunteers, well beyond the sniping of disappointed individuals. Either join 'em and contribute, or cool it. That said, why not take your fight over to your own web blog or even the C25 website, since there were 53 hits on this very subject there earlier this afternoon. This belongs elsewhere.
 
Feb 26, 2004
22,760
Catalina 34 224 Maple Bay, BC, Canada
Association Membership

I have been following this with deep concern, not only about how incorrect it is for your association having this cat-fight here "in public" but this recent statement: "Watching the membership diminish year by year is the direct result of the actions of the leadership of the association." Direct result? Hardly. You'll find that membership is not in any way proportional to the activities of the officers of any given organization. Groups tend to expand and contract based on many factors beyond the efforts of even the best of leadership, and sometimes even the worst. Many associations are faced with the free Internet message boards compared to "paying" membership, who essentially receive a quarterly magazine for their dues. That magazine represents over 75% of the costs for most Catalina Associations. The largest "issue" many associations now have is the increasing cost of Mainsheet magazine, which some consider to have become somewhat dated because of the "rise" of the immediacy of the Internet. One of the most important features of the magazine was its technical data and ability to distribute information to paying membership. Answers that used to take months now takes hours because of Internet message boards and e-lists. The rising cost, due to Mainsheet's singular decision to raise rates because of color copy, is not the fault of the leadership of any individual Association. Membership may also find the magazine irrelevant due to the Internet and choose not to pay membership fees for a magazine when they can obtain the same or better answers on the Internet. Your association is not alone in attempting to address this issue. Maintaining and increasing membership is usually the goal of most Associations. Investing time and effort is something the officers choose to do, and an elected set of officers in our experience do not represent power hungry ogres, but rather the mere handful of people in any large group who personally commit their own time and effort as essentially volunteers, well beyond the sniping of disappointed individuals. Either join 'em and contribute, or cool it. That said, why not take your fight over to your own web blog or even the C25 website, since there were 53 hits on this very subject there earlier this afternoon. This belongs elsewhere.
 

Phil Herring

Alien
Mar 25, 1997
4,918
- - Bainbridge Island
C25 Observer has linked to his blog

If you wish to continue the discussion about the association, that would be the place to do it, not here. Thanks!
 

Phil Herring

Alien
Mar 25, 1997
4,918
- - Bainbridge Island
C25 Observer has linked to his blog

If you wish to continue the discussion about the association, that would be the place to do it, not here. Thanks!
 
C

Campy

activity

It's been my experience that this thread all about dries up for the winter. I sail a swing keel 22, hull number 2226, 1973. There's not much to say about the boat or sailing in the North West right now other than it's wet windy and freakin cold. Campy
 
C

Campy

activity

It's been my experience that this thread all about dries up for the winter. I sail a swing keel 22, hull number 2226, 1973. There's not much to say about the boat or sailing in the North West right now other than it's wet windy and freakin cold. Campy
 
K

Ken Hastie

No anonymity here...

An interesting thread. I have to admit it is one which I don't fully understand but that isn't important; I guess you have an association which charges 'dues' (membership fees?) and you get something for that. I guess also this forum is free because I haven't paid anything for it. Jaguar Yachts are the UK Catalina Yachts. I have a Jaguar 22 swing keel and also a Westerly Centaur. We possibly had a similar situation here in Great Britain where our Jaguar Owners Association (as was) pretty much folded last year because it was essentially run by one person and it was getting harder to find content for the newsletter. Membership was limited by the very fact that dues were payable, and the 'administrator was growing weary of it all' I agreed to take on the 'continuation of interest' by providing a Yahoogroup and a website. If boats are sold via the website we have a gentleman's agreement that a contribution is sent to me to help with web hosting costs. It all works well. Our 'numbers' are substantially up as everything is free and there is a free and healthy exchange of views/assistance. I would not tolerate anonymous postings unless there was a real reason to remain so and I can always contact any 'member' directly to communicate on this. On the other hand I suspect your association is much much bigger and gets involved with racing and stuff so does need some reasonable income. Anyway, I hope things level out and some of the antagonism disappears. These forums are great and I have learnt a lot about my Jaguar here which has in due course been passed over tour own guys in the UK.
 
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