what would you do? sailing off dock w/ no engine

Discussion in 'Ask All Sailors' started by Love and Luck, Sep 3, 2017. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. Crazy Dave Condon

    Crazy Dave Condon

    Joined Jun 8, 2004
    7,333 posts, 820 likes
    -na -NA
    US Anywhere USA
    Many good responses but the majority say get a motor.
    From a retired sailboat dealer familiar with the O'Day regardless of how well versed and/or experienced, you are at a disadvantage with the winds constantly blowing toward the ramp with docks, boats, rocks, shallow area and so forth. Even those with skills, there is one major disadvantage. What about that sudden gust of wind which you have no control over. I recall an O'Day with the same circumstances and a very respected and experienced sailor. He heeded my advice to keep his insurance up but found that sudden gusts damaging other boats and his as well was not his cup of tea. He purchased a motor. He also was injured too once. For the safety or your crew as well as yourself, I suggest biting the bullet and buying a motor.
     


  2. Whatfiero1

    Whatfiero1

    Joined Mar 29, 2017
    279 posts, 56 likes
    Hunter 30t
    US littlecreek
    How long is the dock that 22 not very heavy get sails up and luffing pull boat back all way to shore get a running start down dock and jump in. Pull in sails and your gone
     


    LloydB likes this.
  3. BlowMeAway

    BlowMeAway

    Joined Nov 30, 2015
    1,120 posts, 608 likes
    Hunter 1978 H30 Cherubini
    US Cayuga Lake, Ithaca
    LNL, I apologize if you thought my suggestion to launch from Bear Run was silly. I am not familiar with Lake Arthur, therefore simply suggesting another launch point, perhaps on the south side of the lake where wind would be favorable to push away from shore, and offer a lot more control coming back. I guess I also believed with the C22 that you trailer it.

    Looking at Navionics, Lake Arthur has several boat ramps which appear to have significant depth gradient for your ship. I'm assuming also that some of these ramps may have obstruction or other objects which limit keel boat passage into the deeper channels.

    I've attached a couple images which show Lake Arthur to be a very truncated water feature. In my mind there is a lot of potential areas where you might find yourself in a world of hurt if the wind decides to become confused. That is the only reason I suggested a motor.

    Truth is...we are attempting to help you become a better sailor!

    IMG_0657.PNG IMG_0658.PNG
     


    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
  4. BlowMeAway

    BlowMeAway

    Joined Nov 30, 2015
    1,120 posts, 608 likes
    Hunter 1978 H30 Cherubini
    US Cayuga Lake, Ithaca
    Ain't that the truth!
     


  5. Head Sail

    Head Sail

    Joined Nov 13, 2013
    471 posts, 159 likes
    Catalina 34
    US Tacoma
    You can lead a horse to water...
    As you found out. A sailboat doesn't immediately start beating into the wind from a dead stop.
     


    Love and Luck likes this.
  6. Love and Luck

    Love and Luck

    Joined Sep 25, 2016
    88 posts, 40 likes
    Oday 22
    US Lake Arthur
    MY apologies--I was confusing Bear Run with another ramp.

    HOWEVER, I dry moor the boat with the mast up at this ramp, and it's what I'm stuck with.

    I know of two other largish boats (24' is the max on this lake, I think) that sail with no motor. One is a couple I see constantly paddling in and out of the marina. Another is a 23 footer that launches on and off the same dock as me. I never would have thought to hang up the motor without their bad examples.

    The wind gets very confused in many places on this lake, especially coming around that first point and really, the whole way to Nealy's. However, being forced to deal with it rather than just motor through has made me, and continues to make me, a better sailor.

    for all the "buy a motor" people: I have one. It stopped working, and I haven't worked out why yet, mostly because I'd rather spend a day off sailing than futzing with a two-stroke. I'll fix it or not over the winter, but yeah, of course I'm going to get some sort of motor for the boat by next season. Not having one is too limiting. But that's not the point of this discussion.
     


    Last edited: Sep 4, 2017
  7. Love and Luck

    Love and Luck

    Joined Sep 25, 2016
    88 posts, 40 likes
    Oday 22
    US Lake Arthur
    I'm going to have to try this.

    Thanks!
     


  8. Love and Luck

    Love and Luck

    Joined Sep 25, 2016
    88 posts, 40 likes
    Oday 22
    US Lake Arthur
    Especially since this is a question/discussion about sailing technique.

    It's like a hiker asking the best way to the top of Mount Washington (NH) and being told "Drive up the Auto Road."

    Yeah, driving is safer and easier but misses the point entirely.
     


    LloydB likes this.
  9. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    9,324 posts, 4,156 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    When sailing 14-20 ft center board and shoal draft keel boats I often grabbed a paddle and sat on the bow to bring the boat to or away from a dock. I found paddling caused less wear on the rudder pinion associated with rudder sculling. It is work but you can make headway and steer the boat. Only issue is if more than one boat is paddling the risk of a water fight with paddles splashing is real.

    But the problem is the OP wanted to get off the dock in 10 mph of wind. Paddling or sculling will not work in a breeze.
     


    Love and Luck likes this.
  10. Head Sail

    Head Sail

    Joined Nov 13, 2013
    471 posts, 159 likes
    Catalina 34
    US Tacoma
    Terrible analogy. More like drive to the trailhead and begin your hike. Water moving past the keel is an important part of sailboat dynamics which you are missing from a dead stop. Read up on basic sailboat dynamics.
    http://physicsbuzz.physicscentral.com/2015/05/the-physics-of-sailing-how-does.html?m=1
     


  11. Brian D

    Brian D Moderator

    Joined Feb 17, 2006
    4,442 posts, 1,065 likes
    Lancer 27PS
    US MCB Camp Pendleton, Ca KF6BL
    Head Sail is correct. But I think if he were to bring in his jib a little to create some kind of initial lift, even at the dock, he should be able to move forward after releasing the dock lines. I know this technique works with smaller boats. I also know that this boat is heavier but if he can get a little lift at first he should start forward motion. At least enough to bring the headsail in a little more for more power. I could be terribly wrong about this.

    @Don Guillette for his thoughts.
     


  12. walt

    walt

    Joined Jun 1, 2007
    3,261 posts, 402 likes
    Macgregor 26S Hobie TI, Capri Coronado 15
    US Denver, Colorado
    Only two launch spots at that ramp. You are lucky to have a place that must be rarely used so that you are not making others wait and really pissing them off for the additional time that is going to be required to launch and tying up the ramp. Your lucky.. I could not do that at any ramps where I have to launch and some ramps get very aggressive.
     


  13. Benny17441

    Benny17441

    Joined May 24, 2004
    5,765 posts, 420 likes
    CC 30
    US South Florida
    I think the easiest would be to get a tow out if available. Definitely would get a push pole to keep me off and push me along the shallows. Was this a one time situation or are the prevalent winds on this ramp frequently on the nose? If so, I would find another ramp or sailing venue. Motors are for people that have limited time and want to be able to depart and arrive when they want to. They would also not want to sacrifice a good day for sailing for not being able to get off the dock. Practicing boat handling is always a good thing and it can be done whether the boat has an auxiliary engine or not.
     


  14. Pat

    Pat

    Joined Jun 7, 2004
    1,248 posts, 53 likes
    Oday 272LE
    US Ninnescah Yacht Club, Wichita, Ks.
    I had a little 4 hp. johnson on our O'day Daysailer so if the wind piped up or I was feeling uncomfortable, I had some control...unfortunately, it fell off the boat in to 4 ft. of water at a boat ramp and I never saw it again..so I bought a bigger boat with a bigger motor....Pat
     


    Love and Luck likes this.
  15. Love and Luck

    Love and Luck

    Joined Sep 25, 2016
    88 posts, 40 likes
    Oday 22
    US Lake Arthur
    Well, my mainsail tore today so this is all academic for the moment
     


  16. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    9,324 posts, 4,156 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA
    Bummer. As they say with sail boats... It is always something.

    Time to become friendly with a sewing machine...
     


    Love and Luck likes this.
  17. waterpirate

    waterpirate

    Joined Sep 6, 2015
    110 posts, 20 likes
    Unknown snipe
    US delaware bay
    I feel your pain. Your sled is just bigger than mine. 9 times out of ten at my preferred beach launch site, the wind is on the beach out of the west. In my case there is a sort of cove to port, so no go. There is a rock pile to starboard that sticks out to protect a makeshift kayak portage. The beach is shoaled badly at high tide for 100 yards out. The snipe does not point without the board, at all. First few times out I jumped out to prevent collision with the riprap. Practice makes perfect. I am somewhat proficient now at just tipping the board in enough to prevent the crawl, and holding the rudder down just enough to clear the sand and still steer. Nothing is ever for certain, but I do not dread the exercise anymore. Sorry about your sail.
    Eric
     


    Love and Luck likes this.
  18. Brian D

    Brian D Moderator

    Joined Feb 17, 2006
    4,442 posts, 1,065 likes
    Lancer 27PS
    US MCB Camp Pendleton, Ca KF6BL
    All the more reason to learn to sail with headsail alone. It is a learning experience. You will benefit from this.
     


  19. BlowMeAway

    BlowMeAway

    Joined Nov 30, 2015
    1,120 posts, 608 likes
    Hunter 1978 H30 Cherubini
    US Cayuga Lake, Ithaca
    Fix your motor or get a replacement. Take a look at the Lehr 5HP. It runs on a single Coleman tank of propane. We use ours for the dinghy. Just saying...
     


  20. agprice22

    agprice22

    Joined Aug 3, 2012
    2,372 posts, 586 likes
    Performance Cruising Telstar 28
    302 US Watkins Glen
    You effectively sprung yourself off to port by going to starboard. You could spring yourself off to port by going to the end of the dock, wrapping a line from your starboard stern cleat around the dock cleat and back to the boat. Keep fenders between you and the end of the dock. Haul the line to bend the bow of the boat to windward. Haul your sails to close hauled. As the boat pulls away, you ease the line.
    Good luck.
     


    LloydB likes this.


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