I am a potential future 1980 Hunter 33 owner. I am the skipper of a new Sea Scout ship here in Baltimore and the Hunter is in Norfolk. I am going down next Saturday to poke around and figure out whether the boat is worth accepting as a donation to the Sea Scout program. I have a slip (donated) to be able to keep her in should I accept her, but I am not familiar with the Hunters. With it being a 4.5 hour drive down and it being a 4 day trip up the Bay should I accept her, I need to try and maximize my time in figuring out if there she is worthy. Any advice about the 1980 Hunters, the 33 Hunters, or just Hunters in general that could help me would be greatly appreciated. With it being for a non-profit, I don't have the money to be able to put into the hauling and appraisal so I am doing this with just the help of a friend that has a Hunter 30. Thank you in advance for any guidance or specific things that might be deal breakers. The boat is in the water and has not been used or started since May 2015. Sad story of the owner developing cancer and dying very suddenly. I believe that the family is not trying to offload a lemon and just want to find a good home for the boat, but I am of course leery of accepting someone else's problem.
What Should I be Looking For?
- Thread starter scruffy95
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Hunter did and continues to do a good job building their boats. As to your question, the most significant issue to consider is the boat's integrity and to that, skipping the most important step, a marine survey, exposes you to a risk. Beyond that, if the engine runs and you can move the boat about under sail, well since it is free, what more can you ask.
Not that familiar with the H33, but have owned an H28 and our current H42. No regrets, but before I took ownership I wanted to inspect the boat's integrity, which is what I did. Well worth the money. Perhaps someone will donate their marine survey time to help out the Scouts.
Not that familiar with the H33, but have owned an H28 and our current H42. No regrets, but before I took ownership I wanted to inspect the boat's integrity, which is what I did. Well worth the money. Perhaps someone will donate their marine survey time to help out the Scouts.
It is a sad but common story. A boat is often the love of the owner and tolerated by the family. So when owner dies the boat goes to a new owner.
You are talking about a 1980 boat. Hunter or any manufactured boat that is 37 year old boat is going to have issues. Some more than others, but I would think a boat with issues is what would be valuable to the sea scouts. (Opinion).... Scouts should learn that boats like life is not a push button experience. It is not turning on the Nintendo and play away. In some cases it might be better that the boat is a project. That way the scouts learn all sorts of seamanship skills. But that decision is all about your program.
Regarding an old boat Terry's advise - Does the boat have a solid hull is key. There may be water in the boat.
- Where did it come from?
- Is it salty or fresh?
- The bilge should be clean. If it is not what is causing the issue.
- Oil - engine has leaks, Diesel - search the tanks or hoses for leaks, Sewage - look to holding tank or plumbing.
A 30 plus year old boat may have a log with notes which may give you insight. If not then you are forced to inspect and discover the issues.
- Rigging should be suspect. Since water flows down hill inspect the chain plates and turnbuckles. Cracks in the metal mean the rigging is suspect. You will not be sailing it to your new home.
- Rudder and steering would be a good place to inspect.
- Not hauling means you can not see if there are issues with the keel. At the least get someone to dive and inspect the bottom of the boat. You should be able to learn volumes. Are the through hulls rotting away, does the rudder feel loose, is there damage on the bottom, has the keel been grounded or run into to rock?
Then it is up to you to decide. Is this free boat going to meet your needs?
I enjoy my boat that is over 40 and with many issues awaiting for me to discover.
Best of luck.
Scruffy; Have you considered asking the services of a surveyor and rigger local to Tidewater? An inquiry to SAMS or NAMS (marine surveyor trade groups) should give you a list of surveyors. Since Sea Scouts are a charitable org you could ask for an in-kind donation of time.
Common things to examine would be a short-haul to inspect the bottom, keel, prop and rudder. I would figure on an oil change, coolant change, and removal of old fuel and filter change. Carry extra fuel filters. Make sure all nav lighting works. Inspect the steering system for signs of abuse/wear and to make sure it is properly adjusted. Make sure you have a workable ground tackle system and that you know how to get an anchor set if all else fails. I believe any acquisition of a boat should include a budget to inspect and prepare it for use. So Sea Scouts might need to have a bake sale or two. If you do the trip with capable crew standing watches the trip can easily be done in half the time you plan (4 days). Night sailing is an important skill.
Common things to examine would be a short-haul to inspect the bottom, keel, prop and rudder. I would figure on an oil change, coolant change, and removal of old fuel and filter change. Carry extra fuel filters. Make sure all nav lighting works. Inspect the steering system for signs of abuse/wear and to make sure it is properly adjusted. Make sure you have a workable ground tackle system and that you know how to get an anchor set if all else fails. I believe any acquisition of a boat should include a budget to inspect and prepare it for use. So Sea Scouts might need to have a bake sale or two. If you do the trip with capable crew standing watches the trip can easily be done in half the time you plan (4 days). Night sailing is an important skill.
I'm always leery of these kinds of gifts, even if well intended. One might wonder if the family actually knows the condition of the boat (i.e., whether it's a "lemon" or not). If it's been sitting for two years w/o attendance it could be dirty and mold/mildew-infested inside plus the starting battery might be dead/useless. B/f investing much time in it I would second Gunni's suggestion of at least asking, minimally, for an in-the-water survey at the site (donated). That said, if the boat finally does check out in good condition it could fetch perhaps $10K. If retained the H33 of that vintage is a nice sailing boat; well made. But, as you know, boats cost lots of money to keep up; probably even more so if used in a multi-user situation.
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1980/Hunter-33-3008239/Moncton/Canada
1980 Hunter 33
http://www.yachtworld.com/boats/1980/Hunter-33-3008239/Moncton/Canada
1980 Hunter 33
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Scruffy.... That means you will likely need to bring your own battery to start the engine. Additionally you are likely to find the fuel in the tank was last filled in 2015. Possibilities include water in the fuel and perhaps a forest of microbes hoping to clog your filter as you leave the marina..
A couple of things:
Thank you everyone for the responses. I am going to work on getting someone to maybe do a survey in the water to give me some base information. I can get her hauled for free once I get her up the Bay. I just don't have the sources 4.5 hours away.
- I have an outboard starting battery that I use on my Lancer 25. Will this have enough cranking amps to start the Yanmar?
- I have been told by the donor that the boat has been plugged into shore power for this entire time. Does this mean that the batteries still could be bad?
- I was told I should be able to smell the diesel and be able to tell if it is bad. Should I just plan to empty the tank anyway and start fresh and if so how is it recommended that I empty that tank?
- The donor's husband developed cancer and died in 2015. Prior to that she says that the husband had a marine repair business and took care of the boat and did all the maintenance work, so I do believe that prior to him developing cancer, the boat was well taken care of and not a "lemon." That much I am fairly certain of.
- JSSailem...I concur with your opinion on Sea Scouts and what I should be looking to instill in them. Being a brand new ship, I just don't have any money yet till we start fundraising to sink into costly boat repairs. Blisters and cosmetic, I am not worried about. I just have to think about a 4 day trip up the Bay to her new home and her getting there without a costly tow from BoatUS.
Thank you everyone for the responses. I am going to work on getting someone to maybe do a survey in the water to give me some base information. I can get her hauled for free once I get her up the Bay. I just don't have the sources 4.5 hours away.
You have hit upon something important with the BoatUS towing issue. Boat US towing covers YOU personally, not a given boat. If you own coverage for your Lancer, you would be covered on any other boat, regardless of owner (although I think the owner has to NOT be on board). If the policy is less than 30 days old, you are NOT covered for tows to or from your "home" dock, so that may apply here. Give them a call to verify, using a hypothetical situation.
If you don't have the coverage for your Lancer, it is worth the $150 investment for the year for your peace of mind in your own boat, with the added benefit of having it available for your Sea Scout situations.
Good luck with your program. I applaud your commitment. Our club has a very active Sea Scout ship, with multiple boats and many participants, that takes two full time advisors to keep running. It seems to really make a difference in the lives of the kids involved.
If you don't have the coverage for your Lancer, it is worth the $150 investment for the year for your peace of mind in your own boat, with the added benefit of having it available for your Sea Scout situations.
Good luck with your program. I applaud your commitment. Our club has a very active Sea Scout ship, with multiple boats and many participants, that takes two full time advisors to keep running. It seems to really make a difference in the lives of the kids involved.
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Scruffy95;
I use to be a scout leader and I have a lot of praise for what you are doing. Many good suggestions but Gunni's suggestion is the best. Many will donate their time as long it is for Scouting. Before any trip of course the boat should be inspected and this is a must. Although it is free and you have a slip being donated for the Sea Scouts, I would suggest having insurance first if you intend to bring the boat back particuraly with Scouts on board. Do not travel at night or in stormy weather. Consider what supplies and the amount of expertise will be needed to determine if financially you can afford it to begin with. First you did not state specifically where the boat is in Norfolk. Can you be a little more precise. It will of course be in salt water so a hull inspection is needed.
I would contact the local BSA Council office in the Norfolk area and ask if there are any Sea Scouts or anyone at Council to see who you could be directed to. In many cases it could be the boat was first offered locally. They would be a good source. If you need the local council office number and cannot find it, then call BSA National in Irvine Texas for the local Norfolk contact.
You may want to call the National Area Council of the BSA which covers Washington located in Bethesda, MD as I believe they have such a program and get some advice there as to direction. Not sure if there is something at the BAY. You may want to talk with the Council CEO who is Les Baron. I would try this approach first. I always said contact the BSA first as they generally can give you guidance. they have been down that road.
I have a lot of respect and you will enjoy it. It is a great organization. I use to help and inspect boats for Sea Scouts but whatever you do, make sure you get the title work clear before taking the boat. Boy I was good at that so keep me in mind.
I no longer do that but God willing those boys will remember and appreciate you. Year before last an adult came up to me and said time to Pancake Mr. Condon. I looked around and saw one of my scouts with his son who is in Scouts. I smiled and it made my day.
I use to be a scout leader and I have a lot of praise for what you are doing. Many good suggestions but Gunni's suggestion is the best. Many will donate their time as long it is for Scouting. Before any trip of course the boat should be inspected and this is a must. Although it is free and you have a slip being donated for the Sea Scouts, I would suggest having insurance first if you intend to bring the boat back particuraly with Scouts on board. Do not travel at night or in stormy weather. Consider what supplies and the amount of expertise will be needed to determine if financially you can afford it to begin with. First you did not state specifically where the boat is in Norfolk. Can you be a little more precise. It will of course be in salt water so a hull inspection is needed.
I would contact the local BSA Council office in the Norfolk area and ask if there are any Sea Scouts or anyone at Council to see who you could be directed to. In many cases it could be the boat was first offered locally. They would be a good source. If you need the local council office number and cannot find it, then call BSA National in Irvine Texas for the local Norfolk contact.
You may want to call the National Area Council of the BSA which covers Washington located in Bethesda, MD as I believe they have such a program and get some advice there as to direction. Not sure if there is something at the BAY. You may want to talk with the Council CEO who is Les Baron. I would try this approach first. I always said contact the BSA first as they generally can give you guidance. they have been down that road.
I have a lot of respect and you will enjoy it. It is a great organization. I use to help and inspect boats for Sea Scouts but whatever you do, make sure you get the title work clear before taking the boat. Boy I was good at that so keep me in mind.
I no longer do that but God willing those boys will remember and appreciate you. Year before last an adult came up to me and said time to Pancake Mr. Condon. I looked around and saw one of my scouts with his son who is in Scouts. I smiled and it made my day.
Dave,
Thanks for the response. The boat is specifically in Vinings Landing Marina on Little Creek at the mouth of the Chesapeake. I am not planning on having Sea Scouts on board for the cruise up the Bay. I am going to have her insured (if we take her) and have the BoatUS policy in effect to cover any towing. National Area Capital Council has quite a few ships and I am working with them and Friends of Sea Scouts of Maryland to advise on the donation. I am growing the Sea Scout program in Baltimore Area Council going from 1 active ship a year and half ago to 5 ships now so our council can provide very little guidance and are so leery of boat ownership so thus the reason for NCAC and Friends of Sea Scouts. Considering I have the largest expenditure (slip fees) taken care of. It really boils down to maintenance and upkeep and while I want to teach the youth the value of sweat labor, I don't want to take on a boat that is beyond their ability or mine for that matter. This boat was actually offered up thru a Sea Badge group that I am part of (completed my Rutter in January). I think that the donor is someone of integrity and isn't trying to drop a "hole in the water" on me as this was her final statement to me when I began inquiring as to the boat: "I am thrilled that you are interested. Dave was a Clinical Psychologist, specializing in children, adolescents and their family. It would honor his memory to know that the Sea Scouts are seeking new adventures aboard. " Just a perspective on where everyone is coming from...
Thanks for the response. The boat is specifically in Vinings Landing Marina on Little Creek at the mouth of the Chesapeake. I am not planning on having Sea Scouts on board for the cruise up the Bay. I am going to have her insured (if we take her) and have the BoatUS policy in effect to cover any towing. National Area Capital Council has quite a few ships and I am working with them and Friends of Sea Scouts of Maryland to advise on the donation. I am growing the Sea Scout program in Baltimore Area Council going from 1 active ship a year and half ago to 5 ships now so our council can provide very little guidance and are so leery of boat ownership so thus the reason for NCAC and Friends of Sea Scouts. Considering I have the largest expenditure (slip fees) taken care of. It really boils down to maintenance and upkeep and while I want to teach the youth the value of sweat labor, I don't want to take on a boat that is beyond their ability or mine for that matter. This boat was actually offered up thru a Sea Badge group that I am part of (completed my Rutter in January). I think that the donor is someone of integrity and isn't trying to drop a "hole in the water" on me as this was her final statement to me when I began inquiring as to the boat: "I am thrilled that you are interested. Dave was a Clinical Psychologist, specializing in children, adolescents and their family. It would honor his memory to know that the Sea Scouts are seeking new adventures aboard. " Just a perspective on where everyone is coming from...
You are in good hands so far. Call the Norfolk area Council. If you need help with the title work, let me know. I use to own American Marine & Sail Supply at Smith Mt. Lake and then years ago went to North Carolina. One source for a good surveyor might be Nortons over in Deltaville who use to be a large Hunter dealer. Ask for a good surveyor over in Norfolk. We competited a lot so do not mention my name but will probably help you when it comes to Scouting. There are no sailboat dealers in the Norfolk area anymore for many years. Wish I could be of further help but nursing a back injury and now war wounds putting out a brush fire started by a crowbar of all things. Second and third degree burns do not help much. I also heard a time or two the Baltimore Council was leary in having a fleet. That is a shame but I will pray you will succeed in this venture. Send me a private message if you ever need my help. My last show at the Annapolis Sailboat show was in 2009 introducing the Hunter Edge 27 power sailor with a 75 hp engine on the back. When the first dock was opened up at the end of the show, I took off damn the torpedoes full speed ahead with Harbor Patrol, DNR and Coast Guard after me. Quite a few light specials in a no wake zone after my tail. I did not get one ticket. Great way to end 30 plus years of that show.
The H33 is a very solid boat. Age however catches up with everything. I also have a 1980 H33. Good boat for your purposes. Note the robust spars and standing rigging. Weak points in the original design are the mainsail traveller and the compression post. I had to upgrade my traveller assembly after a nasty jibe. Compression post is strong enough but tends to corrode on the bottom in the bilge if it is connected to a copper grounding strap. Post is aluminum and is replaceable. Fiberglass is thick and, in mine at least, blister free. Tanks are aluminum. My water tank shows signs of corrosion but no leaks yet, I did have to replace the pickup tube due to corrosion. Easy job, that. If the previous owner took good care of it, you will find that it is a good boat to teach sailing on. Engine 2QM15 may be hard to start when cold. There are a few issues there, but not show stoppers. Picture of the bottom of my old compression post attached.
Will the starter battery that I use for my outboard provide enough juice to crank the engine? I am familiar with the whole hydrolock problem and know how to alleviate that. Any tricks for starting a persnickety cold Yanmar?
Expect some cranking as this unusual engine design has an indirect injector (pre combustion chamber) but no glow plug. Original diesel fuel return line went back to the filter and tended to make air bubbles often requiring bleeding. Your engine has been idle for a while so I would bring a bigger battery. On the other hand, if the boat's original battery has been on a charger it should be OK. Also, not related to starting, the original holding tanks on these boats were, believe it or not, expandable rubber. If that is still there, figure on an immediate upgrade.
If you can, find out who those people are and give 'em a call to learn the condition of the boat when it went "fallow." That's what I would do. Also, if the boat has been plugged in and the charger left ON, the batteries might be good if not dehydrated. But another thing--has the bottom been scrubbed within two years? Maybe those maintenance folks would know that as well. If not, the prop might well be fouled, etc. As jssailem mentioned above (#3), get a diver under it to have a look. Use one of the local bottom cleaning services working in that marina to swing by. Again, as for a Scout project, the guy may go under the boat for no charge. Otherwise, you're likely talking only $20-$25 for a brief look-over if even that much and they'll bill you or take CC. (Much less than the cost of two fill-ups!!) Who knows--the guy might even clean it (prop/shaft) for that. (Typically, about $1.25 a foot out here for one-off bottom cleaning service; $15-$20 for a bottom cleaner in the marina to retrieve something from the sea bottom that fell overboard, etc.) Just an FYI-you basically cannot make a trip like the one you anticipate with a fouled prop and shaft; they have to be cleaned at minimum even if the rest of the bottom might not.
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My opinion, call an authorized Yanmar service center/dealer and talk to those guys for starting tips. One of the yards near there may have one, or be one.
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As it is tax season, people are paying attention to what qualifies as a charitable donation that is tax deductable. From what I've investigated on a similar point, donations of "time" do not qualify as in-kind donations. An in-kind donation as tax a deduction evidently must be an item with a purchase price that is later re-valued for its "in-kind" worth. So, a professional surveyor might not be able to deduct N hours at $$/hour; at least not as a personal, itemized deduction, etc.
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Yes the survey would come to the charity as a lump donation ("Boat Survey $850") and the Sea Scouts would issue out a letter on letterhead acknowledging the donation with a statement that they are a listed IRS charity and that the entire amount of the donation was applied to the charity without any offsetting payment. That documents a valid charitable donation.
As long as the amount is usual and customary, and the surveyor has enough income to use the deduction this would be a pretty good way to reduce her taxable corporate income. Given the liabilities in Survey I can't imagine any surveyor doing a survey outside of the corporate veil and claim a personal deduction, it would be a corporate donation. A small distinction for an LLC or S-Corp perhaps, but important.
As long as the amount is usual and customary, and the surveyor has enough income to use the deduction this would be a pretty good way to reduce her taxable corporate income. Given the liabilities in Survey I can't imagine any surveyor doing a survey outside of the corporate veil and claim a personal deduction, it would be a corporate donation. A small distinction for an LLC or S-Corp perhaps, but important.