What radar to buy-need help?

[Rick D]

Sooooo... I have a Raymarine C-80 and no radar now. I can either add an analog radar to this system or I would have to upgrade the C-80 in order get digital radar. Is digital that much better compared to analog , taking into consideration the extra cost of a whole new chartplotter in addition to the radar? Rough calculations would probably be $1000 for analog vs $5000 for digital.

As a personal opinion, I did an upgrade from analog to digital. While I am very happy with the digital, it isn't THAT much better than the analog for the price. I was upgrading other items as well (multi-function unit) which gave me the excuse. In retrospect, I would have been happy with what I had. IMHO, use the $4K for something else.

 

[viper]

The cost of Raymarine, new digital radar with a small Chart plotter Hybrid Touch screen is 2,000 bucks (WM on sale). Digital consumes much less power(1/3) and is also solid state, no internal moving parts. I had a C80 on my Bertram SF spinning around with analog radar, and I don't see much difference, although many more options such as a weather setting, coastal, harbor and open sea settings...

The Bertram had however 2 ,14" very, very expensive MFD screens... which made everything look better! Back then it was $30-40K in electronics... and not as functional.

A larger Chart plotter is nicer and almost a need. And that will cost you another 2K (12", non touch), but then you have one at nav station and another at helm, which is really nice...plotting your trips in the evening or rain while inside.. The small screen will be a good start and this a cheap upgrade overall.

The question is whether the cabling is transferable. Note that the radar can operate wireless/wifi. Note that your IPAD, Samsung and Smart Phones can also be connected to the new MFD, can control the displays and the autopilot P70r, can interface and be operated from all the devices (ray remote, free download)... so a ton of back up and flexibility. You also get the new CHIRP fish finer/depth finders, 3D....

If you don't go digital with new MFD, then you also miss out on AIS. Given the existing age, it is time to do the whole upgrade as if something fails... well you will likely face another upgrade... and the cheaper solution now , will not be in the long run... You will find support problems for the C80 in the near term... Analog s really over now..

Regards,

Viper

 

[Maine Sail]

Digital radars still have a spinning antenna or "moving parts".......

 

[viper]

Digital radars still have a spinning antenna or "moving parts".......

Not if also Solid State ...per the sales guy, not the most reliable reference. No need to rotate the scanner, just simulate.

Regards,

Viper

 

[Maine Sail]

Not if also Solid State ...per the sales guy, not the most reliable reference. No need to rotate the scanner, just simulate.

Regards,

Viper

I have installed every brand of "solid state", "digital", "dopler", Broadband" etc. radar and they all spin. Gotta love the sales guys...

 

[SG]

In my experience, having a "4 KW" vs. 2 KW output power makes a big difference. I'm not sure that some the newer digital radars retain that difference?

The other issue is the nominal diameter of the radome. I think that 24" for a sailboat makes a big difference, vs. smaller diameter options.

Then there is the height of the dome above the water. Ours isn't on the mid mast -- but then we have a relatively high backstay mounted, gimballed mount. I'm not as much a fan of a radome on a 7' pole on the stern. HOWEVER, there are a lot of boats that make do with that.

If performance is the issue, putting the radar on the mid-mast if you're into a fixed, vs. gimballed mount, is probably the best for real range.

The ease of use of the newer radars in "auto-mode" is astounding. However, to really use radar effectively in various atmospheric and sea states; and to search for little objects really takes a little of experience.

I've had friends that have had their radars in the Chesapeake, for example, that are suddenly in fog and rain and can't understand why they can't "see" what's going on. As Maine Sail and others have said before, you really need to use the radar for a while and get used to what happens when you make simple adjustments in order to get the best out of the unit.

Having said that, the new digital radars by Simrad, Garmin, (and my favorite) Furuno units are much more user friendly and give a pretty decent result "out-of-the box". As for durability, as I was told before I bought our first Furuno radar twenty years ago, look at the work boats around and ask yourself why they use Furuno for the most part.

[In reality, I suspect that you'd be fine with a quality unit by Furuno, Simrad (in its B&G or whatever wrappers), Garmin, and (even) Raymarine :^))))).]

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

If you plan to keep the boat long term and have the discretionary $ in your budget, then imho you should replace the CP and get new generation radar, and also add AIS transponder while you are at it.
If you’re watching your budget or thinking about selling it in the next couple of years, buy a radar on eBay that fits the C80. New electronic devices might make the boat more attractive to. Buyer but it won’t clinch the deal and you won’t get your return on the extra investment.

 

[Pizzazz]

I have a 2kw analog on an E80, similar to your C80. I have experience with most of the newer Raymarine radars and the Navico 3G. I do not know much about the Garmin Fantom. Basically, my recommendation would be to get a used analog radome and install it on your mast. It will be more than enough.

The difference between analog, digital and HD digital (color) is not that big. The benefit of the magnetron radars is that you can sea squalls up to 24-48 nm out nicely. The benefit of the solid state radars such as the Quantum and the 3G is that you get better target definition up for near targets and there is less work needed to "work" the radar. The Raymarine Super HD digital is a dramatically superior radar but it only comes in open array, so not applicable to sailboats. In terms of power consumption, solid state is around 20 watts, magnetron around 40 watts. Not a big difference. Solid state has instant on, while for magnetron you have to wait for 70 seconds after you switch it on. It matters to some people.

You can make the most out of your radar installation by adding a fast heading sensor and learning how to use the radar properly. It takes practice. The MARPA implementation on the Raymarine radars is very good, Garmin and Navico, not so much. For example, the other day I was racing some sailboats, I could track them as MARPA targets in relative mode, and I could see one boat is moving 0.2 knots faster than me, another was lagging by 0.4 knots. I thought that was incredibly useful.

SV Pizzazz

 

[David in Sandusky]

Just curious. Do you have that much fog around Traverse Bay? We’ve only had serious fog a couple of times in over 500 nights on Lakes Erie and Huron.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

Radar is incredibly useful if you sail at night, no fog needed

 

[David in Sandusky]

OK. But I was responsible for the Radar plot in the CIC of our sub tender when we were underway. And the Mark 1 eyeballs on the flying bridge always picked up a target before we did.

On our night sails, engine sounds, ambient light, and navigation lights allow us to sort out traffic in plenty of time.

 

[JamesG161]

they all spin

Well my radar Microwave Oven doesn't spin, but the food table does.

They all spin to be able to "radar paint" a target, since targets are different shapes and angles.

my recommendation would be to get a used analog radome and install it on your mast

As many upgrade to digital, the used market is plentiful.

Wait till spring to get the "boat show" special discounts on a new digital, otherwise.
______
As to touch screen MFD's, get used to today's electronic world.
I found that you do a "set up" profile for foul weather. One Touch!!
Then all needed info is visible on one screen.

I dont do much "touch screen" taps, in foul weather or high seas.
Jim...

 

[SG]

The newer Simrad units have both keys and touch screens. I’m not sure about newer Furuno units.

I HATE touch screens while in a wet, pitching cockpit working over a wheel. ;^)))

 

[helmfam]

Thanks for all the helpful input, and based on the above, I found a Raymarine RD218 analog unit which is compatible with the C80. It is new, never installed, for $500 on ebay. Will upgrade to digital later once the rest of the electronics give out.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

Thanks for all the helpful input, and based on the above, I found a Raymarine RD218 analog unit which is compatible with the C80. It is new, never installed, for $500 on ebay. Will upgrade to digital later once the rest of the electronics give out.

Good move. This is not a simple or quick installation, and is not something that you would want to undo. Make sure the unit and cables are good before you start. I suggest you hook it up in a deck level test before running wires and mounting the dome.

 

[Hayden Watson]

If you do not have a chart plotter that works as a display for radar, what is the least expensive way to get basic functionality?

 

[helmfam]

Good move. This is not a simple or quick installation, and is not something that you would want to undo. Make sure the unit and cables are good before you start. I suggest you hook it up in a deck level test before running wires and mounting the dome.

Definitely. Will have a local electronics shop help with the install for sure.

 

[Captain Larry-DH]

If you do not have a chart plotter that works as a display for radar, what is the least expensive way to get basic functionality?

Least expensive way -
1) If you're someone who is a very savvy computer user, download OpenCPN (Free user-supported open-source full-featured navigation software https://opencpn.org/ ) and buy a digital radar scanner that is compatible with one of the plug-ins. That lets you use the laptop you already have instead of buying the display unit. However, it's more "plug and pray" than "plug and play" and you won't have a weather-resistant or daylight viewable display at the helm.
2) If you want a plug and play solution with weather-resistant daylight viewable display at the helm: Look for a used system on ebay from someone who has upgraded to the newer technology, or if you want to buy "new" watch the sales from Hamilton, Defender, etc. for a "close-out" which means it's been replaced with a newer model.

 

[Caspurr]

Guys,
I have an option to purchase a Garmin 18HD Marine Radar and GPS MAP 720 Plotter for $200 Canadian $.
These are new and never installed. Open Box.
The Garmin 18 HD Radar with 36 Nautical Mile Range - Garmin GPS MAP 720 7" Touchscreen Chart Plotter / Radar Display
- Garmin Bluecharts G2 Chart Chip for my area is included - Both units were purchased new together and were never used or installed
- All mounting hardware, brackets, cords, wires and accessories are included. Nothing is missing.

Is this a decent setup for coastal sailing and is $2000 a good price for this older technology wrt 720 Plotter?

 

[sailme88]

Best research can be had at a boat show. Reading and imaging is put aside when you can hands on and appreciate the subtle differences. I've installed several radars. Current iteration is color digital that overlays on the chart plotter touch screen. When tied into to the auto helm, it's the cat's meow...