Discussion in 'Mid-Size Boats' started by Chew Oon, May 15, 2019.
Add this thread to a FAQ
Does anyone know the model of Jobsco head in a 2000 Hunter 340?
Manual or electric? If electric, sea water or pressurized fresh water flush?
Btw...why are you asking?
It is a manual head with sea water flush.
The system is not filling and flushing as it used to be . When I draw in the sea water, it also draw in some of the fluid that I just flushed. What do you think could be the cause of that?
This is my first boat and I would like to be proactive and have the parts ready for the inevitable repair.
Sounds like the joker valve to me.
I replaced my 2000 340 Jabsco Toilet in 2013. The model number is 29090-3000. My Handle gaskets were leaking also. this is a manual seawater flush toilet.
But try the Joker as suggested first. Hopefully that's all it is.
Prior to replacing the entire unit mine needed the Joker about (+\-) 2 years before. It was cracked and if I remember correctly pretty dried out.
I used the head lube, but things just go.
All that being said...right after that I had the same situation you are describing and found my main line was clogged. That causes a lot of back pressure. If you can even push the handle, which is very hard to do.
Given the year and use, you really should check the whole system including the line to the holding tank. If you find you find you need to snake the line, I'd just replace it. Not worth the time and effort. You'll need 8' 6" of new line to get to the tank from the toilet.
If it's backing up, it's far more likely to be due to a blocked holding tank vent than a blockage in the discharge line. A blocked vent pressurizes the system, creating backpressure that prevents flushes from getting to the tank. A new joker valve--which the toilet has to need anyway if it hasn't been replaced in at least two years--is not the solution.
There's a difference between back-up and recirculating. When you say it also draws in some of the flush, is it pulling it back to the bowl via the discharge, or is waste coming out of the channel in the rim of of the bowl along with the flush water? If waste is coming in via the rim of the bowl, it's definitely NOT the joker valve and the toilet is likely NOT a Jabsco. Can you post a photo of it that shows a good view of the pump (not just the bowl...all bowls look alike)?
And what head lube did you use?
So far, I have serviced/cleaned the holding tank sender unit.
Thanks Peggie for your assessment.
I will start with the joker valve as I don’t know how old is the current one.
The waste, albeit very little, is pulled back to the bowl via the discharge.
Here is the photo of the whole unit. It’s a Jabsco.
Yup...it definitely is! If it's as old as the boat, you'd be better off replacing the pump...it's easy to do 'cuz you only have to remove and replace 4 bolts and a couple of hoses and it's done.
But while a new joker valve will block the backflow for a while, but neither a new pump nor a new joker valve will eliminate what's causing the backflow. If it is blocked tank vent (and I'd bet real money it is), every flush will increasingly pressurize the tank, which can result in anything from an eruption in the toilet (I've seen joker valves turned inside out from the pressure) to a spew when the pumpout cap is opened to a cracked tank...none of which you want to happen!
So do NOT use the toilet again or try to pump out or dump the tank until you've cleared the vent. Without a source of air to replace contents as they're being sucked out of the tank, the pump will pull a vacuum that'll prevent it from pulling out more than a gallon or two. A particularly strong pumpout can even implode a tank.
The two most common locations for a vent blockage are the vent thru-hull and the other end of the vent line--that end of the hose and the vent fitting on the tank. Start by cleaning out the thru-hull...use a screwdriver blade, ice pick--whatever works. If that doesn't result in a spew out the vent, you'll need to relieve the pressure before removing the vent line from the tank to clean them out...so open the deck pumpout fitting VERY CAREFULLY with a hose at the ready. Be sure you're UPwind of it! Scrape out that end of the vent line and the vent fitting on the tank...replace the vent line.
If there's a filter in the vent line, remove it...once a filter gets wet--which can happen when a tank is overfilled or even due to heeling--the charcoal swells and blocks the vent...one of the reasons why vent filters aren't recommended for use on most sailboats.
I'm guessing that you're fairly new at dealing with marine toilets and holding tanks. The title of my book (see link in my signature, just click on the title) The title (my publisher's idea) is a bit misleading...'cuz although it does deal with every source of odor on a boat and how to cure, or better yet PREVENT 'em, it's actually a comprehensive "marine toilets and sanitation systems 101" manual that explains the laws, describes all the types of systems and how they work, and will help you learn how to operate and maintain your system to prevent 99% of problems instead of having to cure 'em. 'Cuz you get to do any preventive maintenance on your terms when it's convenient...the need to cure a problem never happens when it is! And I'm always glad to answer any questions it doesn't.
That's a good question. It's on the boat, in fact I just put it there. I'll be on the boat this weekend and get the name for you. If it ever stops raining here! But really I think they are all basically the same, as long as it says lubricant. I may be wrong on that point but I'll get you the name.
But seriously! Take Peggy's and everyone's advice and DON'T pressurize the system until you are sure of what's causing a Blockage and clear it.
Peggie and Sailcapt340,
Thank you for your advice. I will check the vent first.
If you're referring to the overpriced liquid "head lubes" sold in boat stores, they all wash out in just a few flushes...a tablespoon of veggie oil every couple of weeks does just as much for a lot less $$. SuperLube thick teflon or silicone (I forget which) grease that comes in a tube (SuperLube has a fully line of liquid and spray lubricants...you ONLY want the stuff in a tube!) is the best...it's what's in most toilets when they leave the factory and typically last at least a season. Available from Ace Hardware and Home Depot...not sure where else. And it's easy to apply, about a 10 minute job: remove the bolts that hold the pump onto the base...lift the pump enough be able to stick the nozzle on the tube up into and give it healthy squirt--about a tablespoon. Replace the pump, pump the toilet a few times to spread the grease all over the inside of the pump...and you're done till next spring. If you use the boat year round, you MIGHT have to relube in about 6 months...but that definitely beats the never-ending job of pouring something down the toilet every few weeks. SuperLube thick grease is also great for use on winches, seacocks, y-valves and anything else that gets wet.
Chew, check out this recent thread:
I fought back pressure and other problems for years. I rebuilt the pump, replaced the pump, lubed the pump, it never worked right. Finally changed to a Raritan fresh head about three years ago. No problems since, non boaters use the head with no problems. direct replacement for the Jabsco, bolts right up, no new holes to drill. You just have to tap into the fresh water tubing from the sink taps and a find a dumpster for that POS Jabsco. I was able to get rid of the vented loop and plugged the seacock. The fiberglass head lid/shower seat on the 340 fits over it fine. And the boat doesn't smell like low tide when it's been closed up a few days.
Good luck with yours.
Back pressure rarely if ever originates in a toilet...although a failed wet/dry cam assembly--a common problem in Jabsco manual toilets--can cause symptoms that mimic backpressure.
I love your choice of toilets...but it's important that people know that the Raritan Fresh Head FRESH_HEAD Promo Sheet is the ONLY manual toilet designed to use onboard pressurized flush water...so don't confuse it the Raritan PH SuperFlush which is a sea water toilet, and NO sea water toilet should ever be connected to the fresh water plumbing and every mfr specifically warns against it in their installation instructions.
Just thought it important to share both of those points with all the folks who are likely to read the posts here.
Launched the dinghy and went out to the boat early today.
The lubricant I use is SuperLube. About $8-10 depending on where you buy it. And it lasts a long time. Just as Peggy has suggested. It's a black and gray tube.
I also do my winches with it, but just the bearings/gears! Oil for the rest, pawls and springs and just a drop.
Hope all this helps you.
Thanks for the info. Will add this to the to-do list.
That’s interesting. One less through hull is a +. What’s the maintenance like especially on the parts that prevent back flow? Do you need to have the freshwater system pressurized at all times?
Thanks for emphasizing that.
Chew, I'm not sure about the joker valve on a Raritan, with the backflow lockout lever there's zero leakage back to bowl when it's not in use. I need to look into it, mine is probably due for maintenance. Yes, you do have to have your freshwater pressured up to rinse when flushing.
I have done zero maintenance, unlike constantly lubing the Jabsco and hoping it works. I spent enough on Jabsco parts to pay for the Raritan. Like I said, no holes to drill, it bolts right up and the shower seat closes no problem. Best thing though, is how much less smell there is. Though some of that might have been using our local lively Gulf waters to flush. Using fresh water makes a huge difference. I hardly ever add chemicals now.
When I was at the boat yesterday, I turned on the freshwater pump and it sounded like a shower was on and the bilge pump came on. The plastic tee fitting at the water heater busted. Went and got a new one at Home Depot, fixed it, turned the water back on, the other tee was cracked and leaking, too. You might want to look at them and keep a spare on hand.
Separate names with a comma.