What length for ocean travel????

[David11054]

The best book...

I've got lot's of opinions, but my first recommendation has to be to buy "Choosing q Cruising Sailboat" at the link below. Roger Marshall will educate you on the issues, specify generic designs, and then give you all the avialable specs about a broad range of available designs, new and old.My opinion? Classic plastic would require a lot of strengthening and improvments to systems, but I would consider the 70's Cherubini designs of the Hunter 30 or 33.DavidLady Lillie

 

[JC on Bainbridge]

Get a boat now, and another one later

Jacko: I don't want to discourage you, but I would suggest that you get into owning a sail boat now, even if it may not be the one to take it to the big pond. It will let you get into sailing, learn what you like or don't like, and find your own preferences. You will find that after a while, you will know what kind of sailing you would like to do. I know a trip to Hawaii may sound very romantic, but living and cruising on a boat is hard work. Getting fuel or water may even take you a whole day.Don't wait until you find the perfect boat before you get into boating, and end up missing out on all the great fun. You may find that crossing the big pond may not be your cup of tea, and it may not be a lot of fun. Just think of it as a big blue chunk of water that sometimes is not very friendly. I love being out there, but that's just me.Many sailors around here sail regularly in Puget Sound, but have never ventured out. They often will think of sailing down South, way South, to warmer waters and lots of sun. Well, many of them will plan for years, then go out the Juan de Fuca straits, make a left turn, and are surprised that ocean sailing is totally different from sailing in Puget Sound. Some of them do make it down to Mexico, but then many of them also decide to sell the boat. One reason San Diago is a great place to buy boats from the Pacific Northwest.I would suggest that you get a boat now, even if it is not your dream boat, and get into your own groove. When you are ready to head for Hawaii, or other exotic ports, (and you will know when you are ready) then you may want to trade the boat for another one that may be better out there.A low 30's could be a great blue water boat, but it really depends on you, and the experience of the crew.Happy cruising.

 

[p323ms]

I agree with JC get experience

I have beeen sailing for about 30 years. 15 years with my wife. But most of that was in lakes. We've owned a Pearson 323 for two years and have been sailing along the gulf coast of Florida/Alabama. Our ideals have ran into reality. And we haven't been caught in anything bad...yet.  It is hard to know what is important until you are out sailing. Also you won't know what you are comfortable with until you know. Our last sail down to St Joe about 20 miles went very well with the wind on the beam 15-20 knots. We had water over the rail more than once and a little spray getting into the cockpit. The waves were not bad. But on a simular sail last year our daughter's friend a 24 year old with lots of lake boat experience puked all day!!!! Sailing to Pensacola back in May we had a great sail all night. But my wife said that she was comfortable sailing during the night and allowed me to get some sleep. Later she confessed that she had cried a little when the sun went down as she was scared!!!! On the way back she was OK as she saw that being out at sea at night wasn't so bad. I was scared on the way back as the wind died and we had to motor across the shipping lane in patchy fog!!!! Fortunately this part of Florida doesn't have that much ship traffic but the thick bands of fog made for some anxious moments especially in the early morning hours (2-5). We have gained a lot of confidence in the Pearson 323 and ourselves. We have also learned about our limitations. After a 24 hour passage we are very tired!!!! I don't know that we are up to a multiday passage especially if it is rough. We were much more tired after sailing 24 hours than on the return trip where we motored all night on a flat sea.Tom

 

[JC on Bainbridge]

Feeding the fishes

Ahhhh.... Feeding the fishes.... I haven't had to experience that lately, but I am sure I will again. Usually the first few days after we go out. I mean out out.

 

[Fishnman]

DITO

Hey Jacko my wife and I are in the same place. Retiring looking for a boat to sail away.We live on the east coast and looking to do the Bahama chain to S. America. From what I understand from talking to someone that has made that run that there is only on strech that is a 2 day sail. All the rest are 1 day sails. Would this be considerd "Blue Water" Mind you I have no place to go and no time to be there. With computers today the forcast is pretty good. I have 30 yrs of boating experince (power) have a 30' now and have done 1200 to 1500 mile trip through the Bahamas. I know I got alot to learn but I think alot has to do with commen sence¿ I know weather can change quikly. The Catalinas and Hunter 44'Deck Salon appeal to the wife & I very much. But are they srong enough? What are the names of good and reasonably price Blue Water Boats? ($200,000.00 to 250,000.00) I am new to this forum so I would like to say Hello to all and thanks for this great INFO!

 

[Franklin]

Not Blue water

The Carribean isn't blue water. When people say blue water, then mean that you will be more then 4 or 5 days away from land. Even crossing the Gulf of Mexico isn't really considered blue water sailing to some although I'm not so sure about that. You see, if you have to plan a voyage where it takes more then 4 days to get to your destination and you can't duck into a safe harbor along the way when the weather changes and gets rough, then that's blue water sailing. This means a blue water boat needs to be able to handle the nastiest weather you can think of. Most production boats aren't designed for that type of punishment but that doesn't mean they can't take it or that you can't make changes to the boat so that it is better prepaired.Sounds to me like most of your sailing isn't going to be planned on crossing oceans so don't worry about it. If that day comes when you decide to cross an ocean, you may know what to do with your boat to prepair her and when to leave (a very important decision...maybe even more important then the boat you choose).

 

[John Nantz]

Advice from another neophyte

Just happened across this web article that might be of interest to you because it was written by someone else that is/was just starting out in sailing: http://www.amazing.com/cruising/#linksA thought I'd give you about boat size is to remember that the Titanic, which was a fairly large boat, never made it across the pond. As for boat size, well,... as many posts have told you size isn't all.Last week I saw a book in West Marine about all sorts of odd craft that have been successful in their own cruise. Sailing surfboards have crossed the Atlantic so what does that prove? The people that did it really thought things out and I would suspect a certain amount of luck played into their success.Also, consider that displacement is often a better measure of size than length.

 

[Kurt Sears]

For the money

it's hard to beat a Rawson 30. You might find one as low as $10,000.00. I've seen them blown up on a reef and be pulled off the next day with no damage.

 

[John]

blue water v. coastal cruiser

Hello All, Just thought I'd deposit my two cents. First, I would never in a million years think of crossing an ocean with a Catalina 30'. I disagree with many of the posts that it really depends on the skipper and crew. I really can't think of a single skipper I know with any real blue water experience that would risk his life crossing an ocean in a late model Catalina.Some absolute basics you MUST consider for long distant cruising is: Storage, tankage, sea berths, displacment length ratio, stability index (STIX), and capsize screening ratios, not to mention upgraded spars, thoroughly inspected deck fittings, rudder, etc, etc, etc. There are entire books written on this subject.I personally own a 2004 Hunter 33' and just returned from a 500 mile trip around the Delmarva (Chesapeake Bay, outside, up the Delaware, through the C&D canal, and back to Annapolis) With 20-30 winds on the bay and little 2-5 foot chop for a couple hours, no problem... we are out there having fun, beating, getting sprayed, etc....now put 20-25 offshore, with hundreds of miles of fetch for as little as 8 foot seas, and our VERY COMFORTABLE coastal crusier with a great cockpit for entertaining, and light weight for light winds, with only 11000lbs of displacement was tossed around like cork. The crew (my wife and 9 yr old daughter) were beat to death by the 30 hour passage outside. On the other hand, I helped deliver a 48' Swan (700K boat) from NY to Bermuda this past April. Now that was a blue water boat. We never had less than 10' seas or less than 20knts. We were double reefed most of the time, with tripple and staysail some of the time. Bottom line, even though my Hunter 33 has a CE A rating (offshore)it means that the boat could take up to force 8 and 8 meter seas.... it doesn't mean that anybody would be comfortable. The catalina 30 is a great lake, bay and maximum coastal cruiser that you get out of trouble quickly, especially today's modern weather forcasting....Oh, one last thought when thinking about a boat for serious offshore long distance is POWER. ELECTRICAL power. Very few production model, coastal cruiser have the capacity to produce and store sufficient electricty to maintain all the electrical systems you will need for a 10 day passage... Just think, inorder to run your auto pilot (assuming you don't have a windvane), your radio, bilge pump, nav lights, CD player, all take 12volt power. OK... you user your diesel engine. to recharge batteries. How many amps do you two house batteries store. How big is your alternator, can you carry enough fuel to run you engine just to keep batteries charged.... Again... there are books, and books dedicated to offshore, long distant cruising. Please don't consider doing it until have numerous overnight coastal cruises under your belt. OK... that was my two cents.John Cavedos/vHigh Adventure 2

 

[David11054]

Excellent Article

I think this article expresses well the idea that there are lot's of options in selecting a blue water cruiser.They make strong point that storage and hand-holds more important than cabin space, and that the cock-pit is home underway.DavidLady Lillie

 

[eliot]

it's the skipper

I wouldn't think of sailing across an ocean in a Catalina either... but then I don't really care for Catalinas. I have a friend who is a very experienced sailor who, with his wife who is also very experienced, has sailed his Catalina 30 from California to Mexico to Tahiti to Hawaii to Alaska and then back down to California. No problems, no failures, no worries.Like I said he and his wife are very experienced. Both have Coast Guard 100 ton cert. and were well prepared for such an adventure. Although some boats are just plain dangerous and should only be sailed in small lakes, in most cases it is more about the skipper and his or her experience than the choice of boat.

 

[eliot]

John from Annapolis

PS: John seems to think that his Hunter would be a much better choice. Although I understand the "pride of ownership" concept, I am not sure why he should otherwise feel this way.I really don't think that a Hunter is in any way a better boat than a Catalina. Different yes, better... not so sure.Talking about these two boats is kind of like talking about the relative merits of Fords and Chevys. They are both just fine. They will both get the job done. Niether one will seriously impress your friends, nieghbors, or anyone else.

 

[p323ms]

It's the BOAT

Sure you can do anything in any boat..not!!! A skipper is part of the equation but you can't buy a competant skipper but you can buy a boat. And even with the worlds greatest skipper who could sail a filing cabinet to anartica the boat limits what you can do. That's why I can confidently take my Pearson 323 out in conditions that I'd never consider in my old Macgregor 26.  If you have a capable boat you can sail while others in lesser boats have to sit in the harbor waiting for a weather window. I have used a 17' aluminum canoe to fish off the beach in South Carolina. BUT I had to pick conditions very carefully and be prepared to head to the beach if any wind began to develope. The conditions that were far too extreme for the canoe (about force 5) were about perfect for some exciting sailing in my Laser.  I don't care how great the skipper on a force 5 day I'd rather be out in my Pearson 323 than in my 8' walker bay dingy. A very pleasant 20 mile sail to Port Saint joe in the pearson would be a voyage of epic proportions in a Walker bay dinghy. I mean with the WB8 loaded up with water, beer the ice chest and grill I have no idea where my wife would sit. I guess the sleeping bags and tent would have to be left behind. Probably the most important thing that a competant skipper does is to pick out a boat suitable for the task. A blue water boat might not be the best boat for a given task. For coastal sailing a light fast boat with a big cockpit for entertaining might be best. But that boat will be in harbor during conditions that a blue water boat could easily handle. The things that make a blue water boat great at sea make it much less comfortable at anchor. I was looking at a big Beneteau that had a huge cabin. At first I thought "how great" then I imagined being at sea on a rough day. You could fall a long way inside of that cabin!!!! Tom

 

[Franklin]

Be realistic

Nobody is suggesting taking a Dingy out into blue water. The guy is just stating that things such as reinforced/protected rudder, protected prop, stress on chain plates, tank usuage and falling in cockpit are things that will vary from skipper to skipper and crew to crew. Take me for example...I always keep the right amount of sail out for the conditions so I almost always don't have a lot helm. Lack of helm reduces pressure on the rudder. I also try very hard to not hit bottom so that reduces the need for a protected rudder. I also try hard to avoid traps so that reduces the need for a protected prop.The one thing I think that the skipper can't control, but easily fixed, is the strength of the hatches and design of them. No matter how good the skipper is, if the deck gets hits by a wave strong enough to bust the hatch, then he's got a problem if he can't find a way to patch it. Fix is the replace the hatches with a blue water rating. Design is an issue too because some Catalinas have been know to get the hatches ripped off by the head sail. My H376 has the hatches sunken in so as long as they are closed, it's impossible for anything to rip them off. I truly feel hunter has put a ton of thought into it's design and much of that is for safety too. Take for example the transom...it solves the biggest issue with having a large cockpit...water drains out the back instead of through small hoses so it can take the pounding of waves in the cockpit with no problem. Yes, other boats have that too but Hunter (inventer of B&R rig invented it too) started it. The B & R rig is suppose to be one of the strongest rigs there is (something about 3 legs being stronger then 4...I wish I could find something to explain this to me).Do I think Hunter boats are better then Catalinas...no...because I don't know enough about Catalinas to make that judgement. I do think though that Hunters are built good and for the right thing. You have to get up to a hunter 33' to get a CE rating of A. Anything below that shouldn't be far from shore and that's just fine, it keeps the price down so people can afford to day sail.

 

[Fishnman]

Common Cents¿

So Like I said, common sence with the technoloy of today with 24hr weather on VHF, computor, and TV you sould not go anywhere if is not going to be favorable. Stay on the hook and have a coctail.From what Iam understandingthe Catalinas and the Hunters ie. Catalina Morgan 45 new and or the Hunter 44 DS is and seems to be our choice of boat by wife and I. And if we are not going more than a day from safe harbor then these types of boats are OK¿ I agree with you more experince guys that have made long crossing I think I would rethink my plan. Just the other day my friend who has a 30'center console and goes back & forth to the bahamas all the time, but one day it was blowing and the seas were big and friends and crew told him to leave boat there and fly home and get it next weekend. Well they found him LUCKLY 32 hrs later hanging onto his boat that was swamp and upside down. Common Cents.....NONE!

 

[eliot]

great thoughts

I agree with all of you. Common sense is very important. Common sense suggestd that we all understand our limitations and the limitations of our equipment.Having said that, there is also man's inherant need for adventure, daring, and risk. History shows us that there were many "foolish and ill prepared" individuals who went on to achieve great things because they were driven past the point of common sense. In fact history books are written about those very people. They are seldom written about the people who "are caucious and play it safe".There are also thousands of more people of this type who never made it into history because they died! But then again, none of us are getting out of this alive.

 

[Franklin]

Fishnman...right and wrong

Your right in that a good skipper doesn't go out in conditions the boat isn't designed for. A heavy boat is designed for strong winds. It shouldn't be going out in light winds...it will not get anywhere. A light boat shouldn't be going out in gales.Your also right in that in blue water trips (far away from shore) a good skipper knows when to leave...like not trying to go up the east coast or cross the Atlantic in the winter time.Your wrong in that idea of always being able to stay on the hook because of a bad weather report. Take crossing the Atlantic. It takes 20+ days to cross most of the time (going from Carribean to Bermuda then to Azores and then to Europe) so you will be way to far from land to be able to duck and run because a storm is forcasted to head your way. That's where the other skipper's talents come into play. Do you just sail on a storm jib? Do you just reef and or spill air? Do you drop all sails and throw a Drogue out and run with it? Do you heave-to? Do you drop all sails and throw out a sea anchor? All of these have one goal in mind...keep the boat upright, crew onboard and water out of cabin because that's all that is required to survive. A good skipper will know what to do and survive. No matter what boat you have, if you can't do this, then it's all over. Time for plan B...the safety gear.

 

[Fishnman]

Im Sorry!

When I said my friend in a 30' c/c I meant a power boat which to me has more control and DUMMER!

 

[JC on Bainbridge]

Yeah, but you may want to stay with the boat.

You know, in most cases, the boat will survive a storm better than the crew will. In too many cases, the crew hops in the survival raft and dies, and the boat, now empty, survives the storm.Stay with the boat for as long as you are able.