Hello! and thanks for looking! I may have finally found the project boat I've been searching for. 1983 O'Day 23. There's no core rot, anywhere in the boat. Some of the plywood covers and bulkhead walls need replacing. The previous owner demasted it under a "low hanging" bridge. I can redo the tabernacle and rewire the whole boat, re-bed, paint and everything else. The only thing I'm not sure of is this. The swing keel is stuck up in the shoal casing which I'm assuming isn't lead but cast iron. I'm thinking it will drop if I take a thin saw and remove the barnacles and rust. However, as you can see from the pic. The two stainless pieces and their associated screws are pretty rusted out. What do these things hold in? What do the screws, screw into the cast iron? What kind am I going to find up there? The whole cast iron rusted out? What the worst and best case scenario for $$$ and time to repair? ALL suggestions welcome. Seller is moving and is motivated to
sell me the boat and tandem galv trailer for $1500. so the price is right. Please respond soon. Thanks!
What is this? Is it hard to Fix??
- Thread starter Milo Cushman
- Start date
I think the shoal keel is lead. The fiberglass centerboard is held in place by the two plates at the bottom which hold the two wedges above the plates which hold a pin at the top. My guess would be there is a pin up there which is rusting. I thought those pins were Delrin. If the shoal keel stub were cast iron, wouldn't there be rust all over the centerboard?
Anyway, you can rest easy. Keel and centerboard maintenance isn't too difficult.
Anyway, you can rest easy. Keel and centerboard maintenance isn't too difficult.
Keel is a fiberglass shell molded as part of the hull, ballast is made up of lead blocks set inside the keel shell and surrounded by poured In resin.
"Envelope “ keels. Boat hull & keel is one piece molded. While boat is still in the mold, pre-cast lead ingots (4 piece of lead) are placed in the keel void; glassed in place with resin; then the completed unit is extracted from the mold. An efficient, no maintenance way to attach keels.
The Centerboard (NOT swing-keel) is a fiberglass molding, weighted with about 15# of lead inside. Those 2 stainless-steel plates are screwed into a pair of metal plates embedded inside the keel shell, they hold in a pair of fiberglass wedges that in turn hold the CB pivot pin. See drawings below. Pin was originally plastic, rust could still be from the stainless steel, not all stainless is rust-proof, in act most is only rust-resistant. I think metal strip or very thin saw blade will help remove all those barnacles, I use a piece of steel strapping with a tape wrapped end for a handle an work it back and forth between CB and trunk sides. The DS II CB trunk is just wide enough for my CB and it doesn't take much scum and algae to "gum" it up, although since I rarely raise the CB all the way (I'm on a mooring), I almost never have it get stuck during the season.
Hope to see you out sailing if you do buy this boat! That price is REALLY "RIGHT"!
"Envelope “ keels. Boat hull & keel is one piece molded. While boat is still in the mold, pre-cast lead ingots (4 piece of lead) are placed in the keel void; glassed in place with resin; then the completed unit is extracted from the mold. An efficient, no maintenance way to attach keels.
The Centerboard (NOT swing-keel) is a fiberglass molding, weighted with about 15# of lead inside. Those 2 stainless-steel plates are screwed into a pair of metal plates embedded inside the keel shell, they hold in a pair of fiberglass wedges that in turn hold the CB pivot pin. See drawings below. Pin was originally plastic, rust could still be from the stainless steel, not all stainless is rust-proof, in act most is only rust-resistant. I think metal strip or very thin saw blade will help remove all those barnacles, I use a piece of steel strapping with a tape wrapped end for a handle an work it back and forth between CB and trunk sides. The DS II CB trunk is just wide enough for my CB and it doesn't take much scum and algae to "gum" it up, although since I rarely raise the CB all the way (I'm on a mooring), I almost never have it get stuck during the season.
Hope to see you out sailing if you do buy this boat! That price is REALLY "RIGHT"!
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Thank you both for yuur insight. My question is, If we are dealing with lead here and not iron, Where is all the rust coming from? Those screws should be stainless???
As I say, "Stainless-Steel" is not rust-proof, it is rust-RESISTANT. There is also always the possibility that a previous owner replaced the original Stainless screws with plain steel screws. From the pictures, I suspect that is what happened. Stainless-steel can actually "rust" if sealed off from oxygen, such as can occur if painted over or coated with anything that would block air/water from reaching the surface, as it is a thin layer of oxidation that keeps stainless "Stainless".
Ok best case scenario would be that the previous owner, used bad screws and once I get them out and clean up the centerboard I screw new SS screws in and all is well(?) worst case would be what? the plates the screws screw into are also rusted, and they dont hold the new threads? The plates are sealed into the lead keel so getting to old ones out and replacing them would be a big issue? yed?
If you find the plates rusted, you could easily re tap to a larger diameter size. You won't know exactly till you disassemble it.
Your keel is encapsulated lead, your centerboard is fiberglass with some lead weight added.
Should not be too hard to fix.
Your keel is encapsulated lead, your centerboard is fiberglass with some lead weight added.
Should not be too hard to fix.
I agree with Sunbird that the rust is from the plates and screws. Not sure what metal the screws go into but mine came up with rust around the head, not the threads.
I think your biggest problem will be getting the screws out so you can put new ones in. I suspect if needed you could up a size, tap new threads and be OK.
Might want to give Rudy at D&R Marine a call. He has a lot of knowledge on all things O'Day.
Most of those parts just need cleaning up.
I think your biggest problem will be getting the screws out so you can put new ones in. I suspect if needed you could up a size, tap new threads and be OK.
Might want to give Rudy at D&R Marine a call. He has a lot of knowledge on all things O'Day.
Most of those parts just need cleaning up.
Rudy is often THE source for O'DAY info. He was the Parts Dept. Manager at O'DAY from 1973-89 and now runs a little "Mom & Pop" store supplying replacement parts for O'DAYs (often better than original!). www.drmarine.com (508) 644-3001 located in Assonet, MA he is open most Saturday mornings for walk-in customers. Web site is good for parts ordering, best to follow up wit a phone call, e-mail isn't best way to contact, phone calls or visits best way to get advice. Just realize, D&R is literally is "Mom & Pop" outfit, Rudy and his Wife...... so, he does very well to be as helpful as he is!
That reminds me, I need to check with him about the new stem fitting for my DS II.
That reminds me, I need to check with him about the new stem fitting for my DS II.
I bet those screws are the rust. My freshwater O'Day 25 had nothing like that. I'd remove the screws an drop the whole assembly, make sure the line in the cockpit is not tied off. Then clean out. I would not be too agressive with a saw blade, damaging the centerboard could be 1/3 of you purchase price.
I wish I got a trailor for my O'day!
I wish I got a trailor for my O'day!
Looks to me like your centerboard could be held in place by barnacles. I would find an old hand saw with no "set" to the teeth, or hammer out the "set" and run it through there.
First fall of ownership the CB got stuck on haul out for inspection before buying. Then again as soon as the boat was back in the water.
1st winter - Yard pulled CB, inspected trunk which was OK. Suggested I sand the many layers of paint off of the CB. CB still got stuck in up position.
2nd winter - Yard pulled it again. Said V groove cut in FG by pendant was probably catching the thicker line at the eye splice. I went from 5/16 line to 1/4 line. CB still got stuck in up position.
3rd winter - Yard pulled it again. I worked with local metal shop and fabricated SS insert for pendant tube with flared end. No more line getting stuck in V groove now.
But
While installing the insert I noticed scratches on the sides of the CB trunk near the top and in line with the pendant tube opening. Only thing that could cause them was the shackle? I put the shackle on the line, with another line on it in case it got stuck, and pulled up the pendant line. Sure enough the shackle got stuck before it was at the top of the trunk.
Turns out someone replaced the original clevis pin with one that was cut to length and was 2-3mm too long. The CB trunk tapered in just enough that the clevis pin got stuck 6" from fully raised position. Couldn't find a pin that length so I got a new shackle from Rudy.
After 2 1/2 seasons it was finally fixed.
And
I was there when the yard reinstalled the CB the last time. I noticed they used an adhesive to glue in the wedges. Yard guy threw me the left over tube when they were done, said I had bought it anyway.
Guess what it was? 3M 5200.
They said that was what they used on all CB installs. Said you just have to know how to use it.
I still don't use it on anything but they do. Go figure.
As for cleaning the inside of the CB trunk a Dremel tool with flexible extension on a stick with sanding drums works well.
1st winter - Yard pulled CB, inspected trunk which was OK. Suggested I sand the many layers of paint off of the CB. CB still got stuck in up position.
2nd winter - Yard pulled it again. Said V groove cut in FG by pendant was probably catching the thicker line at the eye splice. I went from 5/16 line to 1/4 line. CB still got stuck in up position.
3rd winter - Yard pulled it again. I worked with local metal shop and fabricated SS insert for pendant tube with flared end. No more line getting stuck in V groove now.
But
While installing the insert I noticed scratches on the sides of the CB trunk near the top and in line with the pendant tube opening. Only thing that could cause them was the shackle? I put the shackle on the line, with another line on it in case it got stuck, and pulled up the pendant line. Sure enough the shackle got stuck before it was at the top of the trunk.
Turns out someone replaced the original clevis pin with one that was cut to length and was 2-3mm too long. The CB trunk tapered in just enough that the clevis pin got stuck 6" from fully raised position. Couldn't find a pin that length so I got a new shackle from Rudy.
After 2 1/2 seasons it was finally fixed.
And
I was there when the yard reinstalled the CB the last time. I noticed they used an adhesive to glue in the wedges. Yard guy threw me the left over tube when they were done, said I had bought it anyway.
Guess what it was? 3M 5200.
They said that was what they used on all CB installs. Said you just have to know how to use it.
I still don't use it on anything but they do. Go figure.
As for cleaning the inside of the CB trunk a Dremel tool with flexible extension on a stick with sanding drums works well.
you can also sometimes free the center board...if you can get at the slot, with a power washer. It is a boat worth saving. Best of luck.
The reason those 'stainless' screws are rusted is because not all stainless is the right kind to be used under water. Those screws are probably 304 stainless. 304 used to be used in topside hardware and wire rigging. 304 is actually stronger than 316 but not as corrosion resistant. For underwater applications only 316 SS should be used. When you replace the screws make sure you buy the right kind.
Stainless also has to be "passivated" to remove foreign contaminants from the surface. These contaminants are from the manufacturing processes that make the parts. The cold heading and thread rolling dies for example. As the screws are formed atoms of iron and other elements get embedded into the stainless setting up galvanic cells that react. Passivation removes the contaminants from the surface. Of course screwdrivers and wrenches can contaminate the stainless again, not much you can do about that I suppose. I'm not sure if screws purchased from retail stores are passivated by the producer or not? Here's some reading material about passivation if interested. http://astropak.com/service/passivation-onsite/?gclid=CN_zyp3s2tMCFZi2wAod56YHNg
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Here's a very good article about stainless steel corrosion. http://www.estainlesssteel.com/corrosion.shtml
Here is what it looks like when you get it out. Maybe someone replaced the plastic pin with steel or there is a broken off saw blade in there. Good luck.
