What is the definition of a "local" sailmaker?

Dan_Y

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Oct 13, 2008
514
Hunter 36 Hampton
This post from Jackdaw in another thread defining the sail maker got me thinking about this subject again as we get ready for a new main this year.

"First a question about your 'sailmaker'. Is he a sailmaker who measures, designs, cuts and sews that sail? Or his he a sailmaker who gets numbers and sends the data off to a Asian loft and then delivers the sail?"

My local s/m had a loft in town and did repairs and made sails. For new sails he talked me through designs based on how we sail, then came to the boat and measured, but then sent off his patterns that he made in CAD to a loft in the US (or maybe in UK where he's from), and would receive a stack of computer-cut cloth and assemble the sail. Unfortunately he is no longer in the business. I probably paid about 10-15% more to have a "mostly all in-house" s/m.

Another "local" s/m who has a good reputation also has a local loft and does repairs and probably adjustments to new sails, but does as jackdaw say, comes out to measure for the numbers and sends to Asia for manufacture. At least he did for a friend who had a racing sails made.

So what defines a "local" sailmaker? Having a local loft?
 

weinie

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Sep 6, 2010
1,297
Jeanneau 349 port washington, ny
He's the guy who empties your bank account. :(

Here's the latest email I got from my "local" franchise:
I’ve attached a quotation on a jib for your boat. Now I remember why I wanted to measure it. We could make you a very good one from the sailplan, but a truly superb one if we were to measure for it.
 
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Jun 11, 2011
1,243
Hunter 41 Lewes
When you walk 10 feet into the shop your standing on the stitching floor. There are two sewing machines catty-cornered that look like they are on the floor and he climbs down into a seat at the sewing machine. He has rolls of fabric to create from scratch the sail that he has measured your boat to ensure the best possible results.
That is a sail maker. I'm sure I'm jaded but look up Zsails.
http://www.zsails.com/index_src.html
These are the guys we trust our sailing enjoyment to and they have never failed to deliver. Our racing Tartan 31 uses their sails and my way too heavy cruiser uses them. I couldn't be happier on either front.
 

Phil Herring

Alien
Mar 25, 1997
4,918
- - Bainbridge Island
There are few local lofts that design, cut, and sew their own sails these days, and the ones that do will seem expensive. Between CAD-driven cutting automation and offshore sewing, there are simply more efficient ways to make sails now.

In my opinion, all but one offshore loft can make a great sail for you... if you have a good sail designer and you don't drive the price down so low that you skimp on production details. Just ask in which country the sail is made. The only answer I'd flat out avoid is China, not because China can't make a good sail, but because the loft commonly used there does not have a good reputation for quality.

we could make you a very good one from the sailplan
I would be skeptical of anyone who says they can make a good sail without measurements unless it's for a boat under ~20 feet. Rigs are just not that consistent.
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,989
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
When my Genoa needed some TLC I took it to Frank Schattauer, in Ballard WA.
http://www.schattauersails.com/
Fair price for repair, prompt service, the sail looks great for being of unknown age.

You walk into the shop and are asked to leave your street shoes at the door. The main floor is the cutting/stitching area. Frank or Axel move smoothly about on a short stool/work tool case in their socks servicing your sail.
 
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Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
Interesting question.

I think everyone needs a 'sailmaker system' that meets their needs, from a performance, measuring, cost, repair, and responsiveness perspective. For many, rarely will any single sailmaker meet all of those perfectly, and you have to do what's best for you.

No matter what loft you use to make them, you NEED a LOCAL sailmaker to deal with things that come up.

On the First 36.7, that boat uses pure One Design sails. No measuring needed, the sails fit the boat. Done. And they are very high-tech molded sails, so the local guy can't make them anyway. So we got Doyle Stratus from the Detroit loft, and our local UK-sails guy in Bayfield helps with the boo-boos.

For the First 260, I looked around A LOT before picking Somerset Sails in New York to design, cut and sew the sails. I did the (very accurate) measuring, and sent the numbers. He designed and shared the drawings. We went back and forth on several issues before he cut and sewed. I've done 4 laminated sails (2 mains + 2 jibs) this way. I have a very good local guy, a full-on sailmaker here at WYC, who is very happy to fix them up when/if anything happens. This works very well for me. I would not recommend this to just anyone, because you have to accept a lot of the technical responsibility, some of the risk, and deal with some things when they are not right. The biggest part is being able to look at sails and know if they are working, and what is not working on your current suite so you get better.
 
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Jul 27, 2011
4,988
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
There as was loft in St. Petersburg, FL, Johnson Sails, that in the 1990s dominated the sails market there along with North Sails (At least it seemed to have a lot of business.); but I don't know if it's still there. They had a show room plus a warehouse of materials & a working area where they made the sails on site. I doubt that a loft where sails are actually made would be found in a space of modest area. I believe most of what we see now at local "lofts" is the floor (and the machines) where sails are repaired or perhaps "touched up" when they come from the manufacturer. So, if you're not walking onto a business lot with warehouse-sized space plus a bunch of people around working, and maybe a show room; then it would be hard to see it as a loft where sails are made "locally."

I just bought a new mainsail from Quantum (so new it's not even on the boat yet!) but basically, as you said, my rigger--who I've done business with for years--got me the quotes, measured the boat, and sent the numbers to Quantum. The sail was cut and sewn mostly in Sri Lanka, then finished at the Quantum Loft in Annapolis, where the luff hardware, etc. was attached, and the battens made, and then sent here. Can hardly wait to try it out!:yeah:
 
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Oct 22, 2014
20,989
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Here's one in SF--Pineapple
I saw the owner on YouTube talking with Fred Cook of Schafer Marine, discussing the new sails he will need for his restored Cal40.

Now that's a sail loft.
 
May 26, 2015
10
Catalina 30 & 22 Kemah
I'm not going to name many names as my largest consulting client is a "local sailmaker". Several comments have been made that are just a bit off as the salesmen don't want you to know some of the secrets of the modern sail business.

First, there are still sailmakers using CAD to design, cut and sew the sails right here in the U.S. They will normally be a couple of hundred dollars more than the overseas guys but if they'll measure the boat and design the airfoil for you, you'll be miles ahead of your neighbor.

You can't make sails from the I,J,P & E of a boat. If someone tells you they can, run! Take a genoa as an example. You need to know the height of the bearing surface of tack attachment from the deck. Full hoist of the track using the halyard car/swivel. Full hoist without the halyard car/swivel (I'll mention more about this in a bit). What's the max leech to the front of the genoa track, the back of the track. How high are the spreaders for the patches (they were included right?), how many spreaders? Do you have a radar on the mast, if so how high and how big of a rub patch do you need. Which way does the drum furl so the UV cover is on the correct side. I hope y'all see my point, and this is only some of the numbers on a genoa. There's an even longer list for a main!

So how do they do it? Simple, they make them too small. Walk down the docks and look up at those headsails. The halyard car should be 4-5" below the doughnut at the top. Due to the perspective of you looking up if you see 5-6" it's really ~18". They'll tell you it's for stretch. Nope. you only need 4-5" for that. But since they didn't measure the boat they just made it small. While you're looking up notice that the halyard car doesn't reach the doughnut to engage the halyard lock, but just the bare halyard extends below the doughnut. Have problems with wrapping your halyard while deploying your sail? Yep, it's too short.

The shop I consult with has been around for 41 years, they are in a small 6000 sqft building housing a sail loft and a large marine canvas shop (one of the largest in the country). The actual sail loft is about 2,700 sqft (and upstairs to not have support poles). In the back is an old Carlson 2 pen plotter/cutter that they use to machine cut the sails from the rolls of fabric. It is a franchise, but not one of the big U.S. ones, but a big one in Europe. They don't advertise nationally but they do have a Distinctive ad in the sailing worlds biker magazine for national outreach. This lets them, like other true local lofts, turn out custom sails designed for your boat and how you sail, not the cookie cutter one size fits all that you can get from a lot of places.

One of the biggest things I've learned about sails is pay VERY close attention to who make the cloth. I've seen brand new rolls at a loft roll out and have bumps and lumps everywhere, but so what cut it and leave 'em in the sail the customer will never know (and if you really don't know what your looking at you'll miss it). Having spent about 20 hours a week for 4 years with them (I do their Accounting / IT / and purchasing), I know this. My boats Dacron or Laminate sails will be made out of Dimension Polyant's materials. Spinnakers out of Bainbridge's Arix.

And I'm not saying that all the outsourcing lofts are bad. Take the Bene 36.7 mentioned above. The Stratis is made in NZ but it was designed by a designer in Fl when that loft was owned by a NYYC member who won the National Championship in his 36.7 and it's a great set of sails. Most racers do tend to flock to the big names, but in the club racing scene and older One Design boats you'll see a lot of the small independent lofts still putting out their custom stuff and it will usually win more than it looses.

I guess I come to look around. If all you can find is a local guy with a sewing machine but doesn't make new ones that's ok, work with him to get repairs / alterations done. Help them find a loft like the one I work with. They will design, cut and assemble a sail(s) for another loft and give him a discount so he can earn some money for his time and effort.

If you don't have anyone local start searching the web for local guys here in the U.S. You've got major concentrations in the Chesapeake, Miami/Ft Lauderdate, Kemah/Seabrook (TX), Chicago, San Diego, San Francisco. You should be able to find a quality loft that will work with you to make sure you actually enjoy buying new sails.

K
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,039
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
I would define the local guy as the guy you can down to your boat to measure, or go out on your boat on a Wed. PM. You can talk to him. So he could be part of a national loft but has the relationship with you.
 
Sep 29, 2015
110
Oday 222 Lake N ockamixon, pa
I would buy a sail from a sailmaker who sails/races your type of boat. I bought a North Sail from a loft who didn't race my boat and it sucks. I also bought a sail for my O'Day 222 from North that was made is Sri Lanka, no measuring, and it is the most beautifully crafted suit of sails I have ever owned. It's a suit of cruising sails. Don't go cheep with your toys.
 
May 26, 2015
10
Catalina 30 & 22 Kemah
I would buy a sail from a sailmaker who sails/races your type of boat. I bought a North Sail from a loft who didn't race my boat and it sucks. I also bought a sail for my O'Day 222 from North that was made is Sri Lanka, no measuring, and it is the most beautifully crafted suit of sails I have ever owned. It's a suit of cruising sails. Don't go cheep with your toys.
North offshore all of their production and standardized to generic designs in the early '90s. The One Design racing sails are still made here and the VERY high tech laminate racing sails are made in the western U.S. Its not uncommon to find a North OD set that isn't quite what you expect. However, your boat must be set up to their tuning guide to get the most out of the sails. If you can find a loft racing your boat I would highly recommend using their sails. For cruising sails I think you get the best result if you find someone who's willing to listen and work with you on getting the right sail plan on your boat for what you're planning. I know the lofts that make sails for the sailboatowners group and they are a good product.
 
May 17, 2004
2,099
Other Catalina 30 Tucson, AZ
I used a local sail maker in Torrance, CA who turned out to be more honest than I would have liked. I felt I needed a new mainsail and lots of sailors I knew used this loft. The mistake I made was taking my wife and the mainsail (I thought he could use it as a sample) with me to make the purchase. She's a local Long Beach, CA gal and it turned out she went to school with the sailmaker. They had "old home week" for about 30 minutes and then he took a look at my sail. He suggested with a "nip here and a tuck there" I could get a few more years out of the sail. The cost was about $150.00, which is a long way from what I was ready to pay. Regardless of that, I really wanted that new mainsail!!
 
Jul 27, 2011
4,988
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Perhaps the right way to do this would be to say: "Hon, I ordered a new mainsail for the boat today. Should be ready in time for spring/summer!" (And then deal with the "fall out", if any.):cool:
 
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