What is the cruising RPM for your 4JH2TE?...

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Bill Sheehy

91 Passage 42 RPM

I only run my engine at 1800 rpm. Not sure if it would even go any higher than 2200. I also have a fixed 3 blade prop.
 
Dec 2, 2003
4,245
- - Seabeck WA
Henk, in my cruising life, the hardest state of

being, that one can achieve, is what you just said; EVERYTHING IS WORKING FINE. Don't change anything! But hey, I'd rip out the alternator just to look inside now and then,,,,;D
 
C

Clyde

Your Prop is too big

If you look at the yanmar help site for a for a series "JH2", under normal load, the maximum rpm in gear should be approximately 3750-3800 rpm's on the boat's tach and about 3600-3650 rpm's on a hand held tach meter. The yanmar supplied engine tach usually reads higher than actual rpm's. If you can only reach 2500 rpm's at maximum throttle, your propeller is pitched is too great or in other words you are over propped. You need to reduce the pitch to increase rpm's. The optimal cruising rpm is 85% of maximum rpm's or about 3000 rpm's cruising for a 3600 rpm max. If you cruise for a prolong period of time below optimum rpm's, you can coke up the mixing elbow and glaze the cylinder, which will reduce the life of the diesel engine. Most recreational sailors "Baby" their diesel by cruising at too low an rpm's. You can have a prop shop re-pitch your propeller to increase your rpm's for the recommended maximum rpm's for your 4JH2TE. The yanmarhelp site has a lot of helpful information, it's a web site created by a former Yanmar service manager in New Zealand. Fair Winds, Clyde Cruising rpm's. http://www.yanmarhelp.com/operate.htm Maximum rpm's http://www.yanmarhelp.com/s_mxrpm.htm Propeller and Diesel Myths and Realities. http://www.prestonmarine.com/newsletter.pdf Propeller Matching http://www.yanmarhelp.com/o_prop.htm
 
Dec 2, 1999
15,184
Hunter Vision-36 Rio Vista, CA.
Bill, check out Yanmar Help

Bill: You should check out Yanmarhelp.com. I think you will find that you are doing your engine more harm than good.
 
T

Terry

Clyde, I talked to a local prop shop in my...

quest to solve this RPM problem. He told me to make sure the engine is performing as it should before attempting to change the pitch, which is what I'm doing. On three occasions two seasons ago the engine did go to about 3100 RPM. When the engine is in forward gear and you increase the throttle until the engine reaches the 2500 RPM it is at about two thirds throttle. Nothing happens to the RPM when the throttle is advanced the remaining third to maximum. Terry
 
T

Terry

Skippers, I've posted my problem to ...

Yanmarhelp.com to see what they say. Thanks for the suggestion. Once I figure out the problem I'll post the solution. In the mean time Patti and I wish all of you a very Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. Terry P.S. I think it's time for one of those rum thingies.
 
C

Clyde

Good Luck

The maximum rpm's in gear under normal boat loading should be reached if the propeller is properly pitched. If you advance the throttle to the maximum forward stop, the rpm should be at the maximum running rpm in calm waters. For the series "JH2" you should be able to reach about a maximum of 3600 rpm's in calm waters if the propeller is correctly pitched. In neutral under no-load, you should exceed maximum running rpm and reach red-line rpm. If you reached 3100 rpm's occasionally without adjusting anything, it sounds like a throttle cable problem. But, this doesn't make sense since you say in neutral you can advance the throttle to reach red-line rpm, which means the throttle is responding at the helm. In neutral without a load, you reach red-line at a lower throttle setting. At what throttle setting in neutral did you reach red-line? You might try and run full throttle in calm waters from the cockpit and then go below and see if you can advance the rpm at the diesel manually. If it isn't the propeller pitch and not a throttle cable problem and you can reach red-line in neutral, I'm stumped. Check the Yanmar site for the troubleshooting guide, look at item 5 "Irregular Engine Revolutions" and item 6 "Low (Drop In) Engine Output", it looks like the closest thing to your problem if it isn't an over-propped propeller. Fair Winds, Clyde Yanmar Basic Troubleshooting Guide http://www.yanmar.com/services/services-troubleshootinhguide.html
 
Dec 2, 2003
4,245
- - Seabeck WA
Henk, One more thing, between opening presents,

Your alternator should be able to rev much higher than 6500 rpm with no damage. I would think that 10-12K is just fine for most alternators. A 6 to 8 inch drive pulley in any race car running at 6-7,000 rpm has never caused a alternator failure I know of with a 2-3inch driven pulley. That equals 12K plus. Relax. And Merry Xmas.
 
Jun 5, 1997
659
Coleman scanoe Irwin (ID)
Thanks, Fred and Ward for the good info!

Maybe it is indeed about time to start rebuilding our own system at the end of the 2004 season, since: (a) both the old fuel starvation (too little gravity drop, too narrow feed hose, too small a filter) and engine vibration (touching engine mounts plus worn-out cutless bearing) problems have now been solved; (b) the need for daily battery charging at anchor has been reduced (more solar power, LED lighting and improved refrigeration system); and (c) although I am pretty sure that my 10-year old high output alternator has a 6500 RPM maximum speed limit (according to the manual and the fact that it will soon need it's third set of new bearings) the newer high output alternators do indeed max out much higher (Balmars at approx. 10,000 RPM according to the WM catalog). This leaves the basic question what the optimum operating speed is for our Yanmar marine diesel engines. There is no good reason to disbelieve Yanmar's recommendations for optimum mechanical output performance in the 3000-3600 RPM range (depending on load conditions). In my laboratory we have been running a small Kubota diesel engine for soot emission studies as a function of fuel composition and driving patterns (i.e. differences in rpm and load). From a thermodynamic and mechanical output point of view most smaller diesel engines perform most efficiently in that RPM range. What is very doubtful, however, is whether these relatively high RPM conditions are also optimal for achieving maximum engine lifetime, conserving fuel and producing minimum total soot and other emissions. Also, we all know only too well that -- with our poorly soundproofed and ventilated diesel engine compartments -- both engine noise heat and diesel smell generation can become big factors, especially in poor weather when it becomes necessary to close the companionway.... Since none of us is trying to win any powerboat races, the low RPM domain that Terry, Bill and I as owners of early 90s, fuel-starved Yanmars appear to have been condemned to may not be so bad after all; as long as propellor pitch (i.e. "propellor load") and alternator gear ratios are properly adjusted to minimize coking (carbon deposits) within the cylinders and exhaust system and maximize battery charging efficiency at these lower RPMs. I leave you with one more thought: the latest generation of medium speed (1500-2000 rpm) marine diesel engines is being sold with a 20,000 - 24,000 engine hour revision recommendation....!!! Yes, I know that these are bigger, higher-powered engines that have been optimized for maximum performance at these speeds. However, can anyone name a mechanical rotary device that achieves longer lifetimes and MTBFs at higher speeds? Finally, if you were Yanmar, would you rather have your clients buy a new engine every 3,000-5,000 hours or every 10,000-15,000 hours........???? Season's Greetings Flying Dutchman
 
T

Terry

Skippers, here is the response that I got...

back from Yanmarhelp.com. I'll let you know what happens when I try their suggested procedure. Terry It certainly sounds like a fuel starvation issue. Take a clean container of diesel and connect it directly to the fuel lift pump with a 3/8" hose. Use a return line of 3/8" back into the container. Go for a run and see what happens. If the rpm goes to 3600 or thereabouts the system is choking the fuel supply. If not, there is a fault with the engine. Happy New Year regards, Dick Tucker
 
Dec 2, 2003
4,245
- - Seabeck WA
Terry, Because of this thread I sent yanmarhelp

a question too. It was about an anomaly with my 3gm30f. Dick wrote back on Xmas. He said I had no problem and to just go sailing. I would but first I'm going back to his web site and give them a Xmas gift.
 
R

Rich Wallace

Has To Be An Engine Problem

Terry, I think you have given up the prop idea and I think that is correct. We have the same boat/engine/prop combination and I can turn 34 or 3500 RPM in forward at will. I also agree you have a fuel problem. Unless I missed it, no one mentioned checking the lift pump. I think there is one but as you know, getting to anything on that side of the engine on this boat is a miserable job, especially if you have a generator mounted above the main engine. No one mentioned it here but one of my emergency solutions is an electric fuel pump between the Racor 500 filter and the engine. It is on a switch that is located near the filter (also requires a switch on the power panel) so that I can turn it on and off to check for leaks etc. I use it to bleed the filter but it could also assist the engine lift pump. Let us know what you find.
 
T

Terry

Rich, thanks for the tiips. How do you test...

the lift pump to see whether it is working properly? When I changed the engine fuel filter I actuated the manual pump to fill up the engine filter before attempting to start the engine. One quarter inch fuel line seems small for this engine but the 4JH does not use that much. I'm inclined to think that the fuel line is mot the problem, but it is just one more part of the system to rule out. Terry
 
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Bob Bass

Probably not the prop

I had a wrongly-pitched prop in the beginning. First on was too little pitch and the engine would almost run away. Then the new prop was a little too much. As the throttle was advanced, at some point go no more rpm, but the engine would pour out black smoke if the throttle were advanced beyond due to the unburned fuel. Since your engine is not doing that, I would guess fuel flow.
 
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Rich Wallace

Terry, I Would Check The Lift Pump By

taking the return line to the tank loose at the tank and putting it in a bucket. Start the engine and see how much fuel is flowing back to the tank. If there is a reasonable steady flow, I would say it is OK. If it is not flowing with a steady flow, then it is time to look at the lift pump. As far as the amount of fuel needed, we burn about 5 quarts an hour at 28-2900 RPM, so the amount of flow does not have to be too big. If you do have a flow, my next stop would be the throttle cable. With the engine shut off, push the throttle to wide open, then go down and take the cable loose from the arm on the pump and see if you can move the arm further. If you can, then adjust the cable. If not, I would say there is a injector pump problem. I don't know much about these pumps but I think there is a governor inside to keep the engine from over revving. My next guess is that there is something going on with the governor, but I don't know enough about that part of the engine to be much help. Let us know what you find.
 
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Derek

Terry do you have more info

on your rpm problem. I have the same issue on a 1990 P42. I am now getting soot in my exhust.
 
T

Terry

Derek, I've been waiting for the weather to ...

settle down before I try a test recommended by Yanmar. He said to get a two or three gallon day tank of fuel and run a 3/8 inch draw and return line from the lift pump on the engine to this day tank. Then take the boat out and run the engine up to maximum throttle to determine whether the RPM problem remains. If it reaches max RPM (around 3600) then there is a fuel starvation issue, which can be cured by replacing the 1/4 inch fuel lines with 3/8 inch. If not then their is an engine problem. Another skipper had this problem and he cured it by replacing the fuel lines and the Racor. Terry
 
Dec 2, 2003
4,245
- - Seabeck WA
Terry, your thread is still running. You can't go

wrong. That horse is gonna run. Something I learned many years ago about 'day' tanks, is that the word is spelled 'dea', for deairiation, (or something like that). In the old days, diesel engines needed to have their fuel pumped into a separate tank to 'settle down' and loose the air that was introduced by moving the fuel from another part of the boat. Thusly, 'dea tank'. The story was told to me as gospel, by a man I respected.
 
T

Terry

Fred, sounds like a good trivia question...

to me. Okay, a clean container of diesel...I get no respect. That horse is gonna run?! Hmmm...I could not find either word in my Webster. Is this another salty sea tale? Terry
 
Dec 2, 2003
4,245
- - Seabeck WA
Do you mean a tail (tale) about horses?

I wish! We have three of them so I sometimes talk that way. Damn! No, not a sea story. Horses and cruising DO NOT MIX.
 
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