What is marine wire conduit?

[Ward H]

I was reading a post by Maine Sail about OCP protection is needed within 10' of the shore power connection, unless the wire is in conduit.
I did a search for marine wire conduit and found split wire loom listed.
If split loom over the marine 10-3 cable between the shore power connection and DC AC panel allows me to exceed the 10' rule I'll gladly use the split loom.

Is it really that simple?

 

[justsomeguy]

Is it really that simple?

I like it. Abrasion mitigator.

 

[dlochner]

Split wire loom may work and I've used a fair amount of it. However, I think a nonmetallic conduit is also acceptable. One issue is the edges of the conduit and whether it can abrade the wire as the wire exits the conduit.

 

[BigEasy]

Seems that non metallic conduit would be better choice in a marine environment for safety reasons. Not likely: however, if a hot strand is abraded thru the insulator, and you inadvertently touch the split metallic loom while working in the area, could get a nasty shock or worse.

 

[Stu Jackson]

If split loom over the marine 10-3 cable between the shore power connection and DC AC panel allows me to exceed the 10' rule I'll gladly use the split loom.

Is it really that simple?

Nope. The "concept" is that wire in conduit is, essentially, bundled and close together. Heat through insulation and all that stuff.
That all.
Two different tables.
Ach, yes, it IS simple.
Step back and look at the big picture.
It will NOT affect the 10 foot rule, anyhow.

 

[Ward H]

Seems that non metallic conduit would be better choice in a marine environment for safety reasons. Not likely: however, if a hot strand is abraded thru the insulator, and you inadvertently touch the split metallic loom while working in the area, could get a nasty shock or worse.

I fully agree, I'm only asking about non conductive conduit. Split loom is plastic so non conductive.

Nope. The "concept" is that wire in conduit is, essentially, bundled and close together. Heat through insulation and all that stuff.
That all.
Two different tables.
Ach, yes, it IS simple.
Step back and look at the big picture.
It will NOT affect the 10 foot rule, anyhow.

A bundle of three conductor #10 awg wires with 105c rating have an allowable amperage of 42 amps.
So 10 awg triplex cable is a bundle and meets the amp ratings for a 30 amp shore power service. (Per table on genuine deals.com)

But that is not my question.

@Maine Sail
Marine wire can be ran through conduit.
I normally think of conduit being rigid with rigid end fittings.
In the marine environment is split plastic loom considered conduit?

Here is a link to the product I’m asking about.
https://www.starmarinedepot.com/shields-conduit-5/8in-split-wire-conduit-50-foot.html

If battery cable is run from the battery in 2’ of this wire loom, will it extend the “fuse within 7” requirement to 2’ because the cable has extra protection from chafe?

Would the same apply to the “OCP within 10’ of shore power connection” rule if the wire runs in this wire loom?

 

[uncledom]

I don't think split wire loom would be considered conduit by any authority. Conduit is rigid and if supported per instructions, every three feet I think, is fully supportive of the wires inside. I don't currently have access to look for the definition of conduit in the NEC or ABYC.

 

[Ward H]

FYI
Here is the quote from Maine Sail:
"If the AC wire is in a protective conduit I see no danger in going beyond 10' and up to 12' unless it is done stupidly."
Found in post #26 of this thread:
https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/ac-circuit-confusion.183117/page-2

 

[dlochner]

There are several places where Sabre used this stuff: https://www.lowes.com/pd/CARLON-Common-3-4-in-Actual-0-75-in-Non-Metal-Flex-25-ft-Conduit/1000341007

I see no reason why it wouldn't work on a boat.

 

[Ron20324]

I don't think split wire loom would be considered conduit by any authority. Conduit is rigid and if supported per instructions, every three feet I think, is fully supportive of the wires inside. I don't currently have access to look for the definition of conduit in the NEC or ABYC.

With 38 years in the telephone industry, I agree with Uncledom. Conduit would need to be in place BEFORE the wire goes in, so rigid enough to be self-supporting. The reference for the split covering should not be called a conduit in my opinion. "Split Wire Loom" as Lowes calls it.

 

[JRT]

I thought of this approach not for length necessary but for a neater installation. I was worried moisture could build up inside the conduit in a marine environment. Of course the correct answer is to have a dry boat first.

 

[Maine Sail]

Unlike the battery fuse "exceptions" the 10' rule has no exception for conduit or sheathing. If the wire is longer than 10 wire feet from the shore power inlet, aditional circuit protection is required. On a 120V shore system this means a double pole breaker that silmutaneously breaks AC Hot and AC Neutral.

11.10.2.8.2 Simultaneous trip circuit breakers shall be provided in power feeder conductors as follows:

11.10.2.8.2.1 120 volt AC, single phase - ungrounded and grounded conductors (white),

11.10.2.8.3 Additional Overcurrent Protection - If the location of the main shore power disconnect circuit breaker is in excess of 10 feet (three meters) from the shore power inlet or the electrical attachment point of a permanently installed shore power cord, additional fuses or circuit breakers shall be provided within 10 feet (three meters) of the inlet or attachment point to the electrical system of the boat. Measurement is made along the conductors.

 

[Ron20324]

I don't think split wire loom would be considered conduit by any authority. Conduit is rigid and if supported per instructions, every three feet I think, is fully supportive of the wires inside. I don't currently have access to look for the definition of conduit in the NEC or ABYC.

With 38 years in the telephone industry, I agree with Uncledom. Conduit would need to be in place BEFORE the wire goes in, so rigid enough to be self-supporting. The reference for the split covering should not be called a conduit in my opinion. "Split Wire loom" is what Lowes call the split stuff.

 

[dlochner]

I thought of this approach not for length necessary but for a neater installation. I was worried moisture could build up inside the conduit in a marine environment. Of course the correct answer is to have a dry boat first.

It is probably for easier boat building. By installing conduit before or during parts of the interior construction it is easier to run wires later. Or there may be places through which wires must be run, but the interior construction is such that it would be impossible to do so later in the build. There are wires run through conduit on my boat underneath the refrigerator. The insulation goes to the hull so there is no way to run wire after the refrigerator is installed, a short piece of conduit provides a route.

 

[Maine Sail]

FYI
Here is the quote from Maine Sail:
"If the AC wire is in a protective conduit I see no danger in going beyond 10' and up to 12' unless it is done stupidly."
Found in post #26 of this thread:
https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/ac-circuit-confusion.183117/page-2

While I personally believe that a proper conduit would be "safe", if done well and properly, it does not change the standard. The standard does not allow for conduit to extend the 10' rule.

Below that quote was this:

"FWIW I believe it would be significantly safer if the ABYC would adopt the ISO/RCD 1.5' / 10' (in conduit) requirement rather than the max 10' no conduit...."

What this is saying is that I agree with the ISO/RCD standard that allows for up to 10', if the wire is in a conduit, and only 1.5' if not in a conduit, and that I disagree with the ABYC 10' rule that allows for no conduit at all betwen the shore inlet and the main breaker. Still, the standard has no exception to use conduit to go beyond 10'. If you are longer than 10 wire feet, it needs to have an additional breaker. Now is a good time to install an ELCI which is now also a requirement...

 

[Ward H]

Thanks much for clarifying. Then I'll plan to put a 30 amp double pole breaker near shore power connection.
I'll be putting replacing the current AC panel with a new one with a 30 ELCI main breaker. I want the test function to be easily visible so I remember to test it.

So could I use that split loom I posted to for battery cable sheathing. I want to run the main battery cable out of the battery box to an on/off isolation switch, then back into the box to the fused bus bar.

 

[BigEasy]

Ward,
I was thinking semi flexible plastic conduit that is used sub grade or exterior in home AC projects.

 

[Sefuller]

Ward, I didn't see where you posted the specific split loom you are considering but in the course of my current wiring project I had to remove a lot of split loom from the boat that was not self extinguishing, as noted by the blue stripe.

Also saw this from ABYC - Conductors that may be exposed to physical damage shall be protected by loom, conduit tape, raceways or other equivalent protection. When AC and DC conductors are run together, the AC conductors shall be sheathed, bundled, or otherwise kept separate from the DC conductors. Loom used to cover conductors shall be self-extinguishing. The base product (or resin) shall be classified as V-2 or better, in accordance with UL 94, Tests for Flammability of Plastic Materials.

 

[Ron20324]

... So could I use that split loom I posted to for battery cable sheathing. I want to run the main battery cable out of the battery box to an on/off isolation switch, then back into the box to the fused bus bar.

You could still use the loom, but you'd be trapping heat areound the cable. I don't think you'd need it, but your boat, your choice. I used regular plumbing pipe for the conduit.

 

[dlochner]

So could I use that split loom I posted to for battery cable sheathing. I want to run the main battery cable out of the battery box to an on/off isolation switch, then back into the box to the fused bus bar.

The loom doesn't need to go the whole way, just in areas where it will subject to chafe, such as passing through a bulkhead or around a bend.

Another option is to put the loom over the edges the cable passes over.