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Voyager self-steering

Discussion in 'The Cherubini Hunters' started by Loyalist, Feb 16, 2017. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. Loyalist

    Loyalist

    Joined Jan 11, 2017
    56 posts, 9 likes
    Hunter 37c
    Ca Ontario Kingston
    I am purchasing a used voyager wind vane (good price) but I am looking for any help and installation ideas or advice. I want to off-set from the centre-line so I can use my stern ladder. The instal is very low profile but if anyone has installed one please lend a hand.
    Thank You
     


  2. Alctel

    Alctel

    Joined Dec 13, 2013
    231 posts, 9 likes
    Hunter 36
    CA Victoria
    No experience with that model of windvane but I'm installing a windvane as well - having to move my stern ladder to one side so the vane is centered
     


  3. Loyalist

    Loyalist

    Joined Jan 11, 2017
    56 posts, 9 likes
    Hunter 37c
    Ca Ontario Kingston
    I believe that I will have to move my ladder about 4 to 6 inches I'm hoping someone can tell me how much the water vane can be off-centre and still be efficient. What type of self-steering are you installing? I think the 37-c and the 36 are quite similar at the stern.
     


  4. Joe23455

    Joe23455

    Joined Jan 22, 2008
    84 posts, 2 likes
    Hunter 36_1980
    US Egg Harbor Township NJ
    I have installed the Cape Horn Wind Vane on my 36 hunter. I did offset the install by about 9" and also
    offset my boarding ladder about the same on the starboard side. all has worked well,
    Provided shaft of vane is kept parallel to keel. Offset of center is ok and keep to minimum.
    joe
    s/v trinity
     


  5. Loyalist

    Loyalist

    Joined Jan 11, 2017
    56 posts, 9 likes
    Hunter 37c
    Ca Ontario Kingston
    Thank you for your input Joe, I am thinking of off-setting six for the wind vane and four for the ladder. The 37-c has a very narrow stern but it is good to hear it works as far off as nine inches. If I could do that I'm not sure I would have to move the ladder at all. Do you know how much of the water vane is in the water on the opposite tack?
    Bob V.
     


  6. Joe23455

    Joe23455

    Joined Jan 22, 2008
    84 posts, 2 likes
    Hunter 36_1980
    US Egg Harbor Township NJ
    The 36 stern is also narrow and probably not that different then the 37. I cannot give a distance out of water, but the length of the paddle is at least 4ft. and most of that is in the water, so, so far I never experienced a lack of steering situation on an opposite tack. Now you have me thinking, sooo when I am sailing this season I will pay attention to that. I will be at the boat sometime next week and verify some dimensions. The paddle is not doing the steering it is just directing the main rudder
    so my guess is with such a strong force that the servo puts on the paddle, it does not take a lot of surface area to
    have an effect on the main rudder mechanism. Therefor a small offset should not effect performance. Good luck with your install and measure everything at least a thousand times. I hated drilling a 2" hole in my stern ! yikes

    joe
     


  7. Loyalist

    Loyalist

    Joined Jan 11, 2017
    56 posts, 9 likes
    Hunter 37c
    Ca Ontario Kingston
    I think the drilling would make any sane person wary. I know that the rudder is actuated by the water vane, and the water vane is connected to the wind vane, and the wind vane can be connected to a tiller pilot. Sounds like an old song. I will be doing some measurements myself this week (over and over).
     


  8. Jim Legere

    Jim Legere

    Joined Jun 8, 2004
    795 posts, 51 likes
    Hunter 37-cutter
    CA Nova Scotia 44°38'15"N63°55'36"W
    I have a Cape Horn Jean du Sud windvane, installed off-centre. It works very well. I did not have to reposition the ladder.
     


  9. Loyalist

    Loyalist

    Joined Jan 11, 2017
    56 posts, 9 likes
    Hunter 37c
    Ca Ontario Kingston
    Thank you Jim. It appears the Cape Horn is the one for the Cherubini Hunters. The servo pendulum is similar to the Voyager but the paddle to steering, is a more sophisticated system. Unfortunately at this time I have to prioritize so I am working out the Voyager. Thank you for the info on the off-set. I have looked over your photos and it appears to be a great installation. Can you tell me how much paddle you have in the water on the opposite tack and have you noticed any difference in control between tacks?
    BobV.
     


  10. Jim Legere

    Jim Legere

    Joined Jun 8, 2004
    795 posts, 51 likes
    Hunter 37-cutter
    CA Nova Scotia 44°38'15"N63°55'36"W
    This answer is based on my best estimate; the variables are difficult to accurately measure underway. There is probably less than a foot of difference in the 'draft' of the servo oar from port tack (deep) to starboard tack (shallow). There is a minimum about eighteen inches of the oar in the water on starboard tack. This is based on 20 degrees of heel. The trick with making a servo-pendulum wind vane work well is to trim the sails for a balanced helm. If you are over-sailed or have a wicked weather helm, the vane will struggle. Also remember that as boat speed increases, so does the force available from the self steering. I have not noticed any difference in control on port or starboard tacks if boat is trimmed properly.

    With your Voyager vane, you may need to build a deeper servo oar to compensate for mounting it off-centre. I am not familiar with the Voyager, but this would be easy to do with the Cap Horn. I hope this helps.
     


    Loyalist likes this.
  11. Loyalist

    Loyalist

    Joined Jan 11, 2017
    56 posts, 9 likes
    Hunter 37c
    Ca Ontario Kingston
    Thank you for your estimates of the depth of the servo paddle (oar). It is quite easy to build a deeper oar for the voyager keeping in mind your numbers, but I'm not sure if I will need to yet. Thank you for your responses. I'm sure I will have to learn to dial the boat in for neutral helm and work through the points of sail with the cutter rig.
     


  12. Johnb

    Johnb

    Joined Jan 22, 2008
    990 posts, 60 likes
    Hunter 37-cutter
    US Richmond CA
    Jim, a question and a request. Would it serve as an emergency rudder? Would you please post a picture or two.
     


  13. Jim Legere

    Jim Legere

    Joined Jun 8, 2004
    795 posts, 51 likes
    Hunter 37-cutter
    CA Nova Scotia 44°38'15"N63°55'36"W
    Hi John,
    Although a couple of brands advertise this feature, most models of windvane self-steering do not serve as an emergency rudder. The servo-pendulum or 'oar' is there to provide the force to turn the main rudder; it does not have enough area to steer the boat. But a windvane installation like mine does provide redundancy for the all the steering gear - wheel, binnacle, cables etc. - since it acts directly on the quadrant (or, in our case, the Edson radial drive wheel). If I broke a steering cable, I would rather use my windvane to steer than wrestle with the emergency tiller. I started a thread on my windvane installation, with pictures, back in 2012 - you can access it here.

    The maker of my vane, Cape Horn, does offer an 'emergency rudder kit' that is added to part of the existing windvane structure. I think my preference for emergency steering at sea would be more along the lines of towed warps or drogues, but I haven't really researched it as of yet.
     


    Last edited: Feb 20, 2017

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