Using outboard on Catalina 30

Jan 16, 2017
12
Catalina 30 Milford, CT
Hi, I just got myself a 1980 Catalina 30. It is in NY area and I need to get it to Kingston, Canada. One of the options is to sail it, but the Atomic-4 is frozen on it. Fixing the engine that far from home is not reasonable, so I need to get it closer to home somehow. The shipping quote was for 4.6K US and the trailer I found so far is 8K US. So I am wondering if I can use outboard temporary and sail it that way. Is it even possible? If outboard is not an option, but I find the way to fix inboard - how difficult would it be to sail from NY to Kingston? Did anyone here have such experience? Any advise or help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!
 
Jan 16, 2017
12
Catalina 30 Milford, CT
Or is there any place where I can rent a trailer for a reasonable price?
 
Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
What part of NY? I am assuming the boat is on the Lake Ontario shore of NY and not in NYC...
 
Jan 18, 2016
782
Catalina 387 Dana Point
Folks have put outboards on Catalina 30s. It's ugly, and the prop will come out of the water in chop, but it's been done. If you google it you'll get lots of hits.

You don't mention where in NY the boat is, and that may be a major factor. I'm not sure I'd want to cross 140 miles of Lake Ontario in the winter no matter if the engine runs or not.

If you can turn a wrench, I'd first try to find out if the A4 is salvageable. If it's truly siezed, a reman from Moyer Marine is around $5K. The C-30 is likely one of the easiest boats to pull an engine out of. Ya may want to reconsider fixing it where it is.
 
Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
Here are a couple links from another forum that are similar discussions with a few pics;
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/gear-maintenance/45513-outboard-motor-bracket.html
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/diesel/97378-buying-boat-non-running-diesel.html

Generally speaking, I wouldn't want to do it on a Catalina 30. C25's and C27's often have outboards, but the C30 just has way more displacement and the transom isn't designed for it. At a minimum you would need a 9.9HP (I'm guessing) but more possibly a 15, plus a very heavy duty motor bracket that would require mounting with reinforcements. Below is a link to Dr. Judy B's page where she did this on a C27, using a Garhauer 4 spring motor bracket and having a special stainless bracket made for the transom so the outboard bracket is easily removed;
http://www.blumhorst.com/catalina27/outboard-bracket.htm

This is just to give you an idea of how complicated this really is. New 15 hp motor w/long shaft and electric start will run you $2700, the right bracket will be between $600 to $1000, and a specially fabricated plate will be around $100 per hour to have made plus materials... You could just bolt the bracket directly to the transom, buy then that makes it mostly permanent. With all that money/time tied up in something that should be meant as a temporary method of aux power, I'd just buy a new Beta Marine diesel.
 
Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
So, one thing I forgot to ask.... Can she sail? If we are taking Lake Ontario here, say Rochester NY to Kingston (but I hope you are closer), I would make her ready to sail safely... then get a powerboat friend who has a good vessel with some solid HP to go with you. Only give you a tow out/in to Marina and pace you along the way in case of trouble. Use inflatable dinghies plus line handlers to help you maneuver into or out of slips.
 
Jan 16, 2017
12
Catalina 30 Milford, CT
Sorry for being not that specific in its current location. It is actually near NY City !!! So, will be a long trip. And I am not planning on doing so right away. Was thinking of keeping it at the current marina and sailing in the spring.
 
Sep 8, 2014
2,551
Catalina 22 Swing Keel San Diego
Sorry for being not that specific in its current location. It is actually near NY City !!! So, will be a long trip. And I am not planning on doing so right away. Was thinking of keeping it at the current marina and sailing in the spring.
So you are looking at a long trip that goes up the east coast, around Nova Scotia and down the St Lawerence Seaway...
So this greatly depends on your plans to store the boat... is it going right into a Marina or is it going on the hard for refit or restoration work?
If she is in need of a great deal of work and you are bound to put her on stands in dry storage I would transport over land. Get more quotes, I think $4300 isn't all that crazy but you might get a better deal elsewhere.
If the boat is mostly sail worthy I would fix or upgrade anything needed in that area, and then I would find the best deal you can on a Beta or Yanmar, just go ahead and install it where she lies in NY. I wouldn't be going on a big trip like that without a fully seaworthy vessel in terms or sail/rigging or an unreliable aux motor. I certainly would not rely on an outboard for that trip, especially a used one.
 
Jan 16, 2017
12
Catalina 30 Milford, CT
Thank you! This eliminated one option :) Still considering either using shipping company or towing myself. Anyone with experience towing Catalina 30? I am an experienced driver, but never towed a boat before. How bad could it be? The trip from Ottawa to NY city is about 7 hours. Should I count to double that with the boat? The reason I would prefer buying a trailer is that later on I can still move the boat around. Although one time expense is higher...
 
Nov 8, 2007
1,523
Hunter 27_75-84 Sandusky Harbor Marina, Ohio
I believe the Catalina 30 is wide enough to be an exceptional load if trailering. Not sure what that means, though.

I'm in the pull the engine now and rebuild/replace group.

On your question about crossing Lake Ontario:
I assume you are talking about going up the Hudson, then taking the Erie Canal to Oswego and across Lake Ontario to Kingston.
I crewed with a friend on his Hunter 30 from the Trent-Severn to Oneida on the Erie Canal a few summers ago. Our crossing of the Lake was about the same as yours would be. He left his mast down for the trip, and we motored about 8 hours from the mouth of the Bay of Qinte to Oswego.
You will put your mast up in Oswego, and have sails available for the crossing, I guess. I would call it a normal Great Lakes summer crossing. Pick a day with no front passing through and the prevailing southwest winds, and leave early (7:00 AM) to avoid late afternoon pop up storms as you arrive in Kingston. You could easily end up sailing the whole way, but about 50% of our cruising is motor-sailing because of low winds, so you want a working "iron genny."

After sailing up the Hudson, and motoring in the Erie Canal, you will know the boat pretty well before making the crossing. Sounds like a good trip to me, if you have the time!
 
Jan 18, 2016
782
Catalina 387 Dana Point
A diesel repower will likely be very expensive and problematic. Most engines are too tall, will require some modification to the stringers, new mounts, new prop, new fuel lines and maybe new tank, new muffler, new exhaust (the A4 exhaust is too small), etc.. I've thought about it for my boat and it'd run ~$14K for a Beta and all the stuff I'd need to change over with me doing all the work. So if my A4 ever dies I'd drop in a reman A4. Many will disagree with me, 'cause gas on a boat and all that. But since you can buy another complete C-30 for what a diesel repower would cost, why not just pick a boat closer that has a working engine? (There's one advertised in Whitby for $18K - with a universal m25xp - and Whitby is much closer to Kingston)

Once again, moyer will sell you a complete reman A4 for $4900. A complete new engine for $6400 - yes, that's a brand new A4 engine block, new manifolds, etc. A short block is $3100.

Towing? A C-30 is almost 11 feet wide - you'll likely need wide load permits, maybe even a chase vehicle. It's also pretty dang heavy - you'd need a lot of truck.
 
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Jan 16, 2017
12
Catalina 30 Milford, CT
I believe the Catalina 30 is wide enough to be an exceptional load if trailering. Not sure what that means, though.

I'm in the pull the engine now and rebuild/replace group.

On your question about crossing Lake Ontario:
I assume you are talking about going up the Hudson, then taking the Erie Canal to Oswego and across Lake Ontario to Kingston.
I crewed with a friend on his Hunter 30 from the Trent-Severn to Oneida on the Erie Canal a few summers ago. Our crossing of the Lake was about the same as yours would be. He left his mast down for the trip, and we motored about 8 hours from the mouth of the Bay of Qinte to Oswego.
You will put your mast up in Oswego, and have sails available for the crossing, I guess. I would call it a normal Great Lakes summer crossing. Pick a day with no front passing through and the prevailing southwest winds, and leave early (7:00 AM) to avoid late afternoon pop up storms as you arrive in Kingston. You could easily end up sailing the whole way, but about 50% of our cruising is motor-sailing because of low winds, so you want a working "iron genny."

After sailing up the Hudson, and motoring in the Erie Canal, you will know the boat pretty well before making the crossing. Sounds like a good trip to me, if you have the time!
Thank you, David! Under normal conditions :) how long do you think the whole trip will take? Are there any shallow areas where 5.5 draft can be an issue?
 

JRacer

.
Aug 9, 2011
1,331
Beneteau 310 Cheney KS (Wichita)
FYI, for perspective: When I bought my Beneteau First 310, I bought a used 3 axle trailer for it. paid about 4,500 for the trailer and had to put 6 new big trailer tires on it (1200-1500 as I recall) and rewire it. No trailer brakes. If I was going long distance with it I would have added electric brakes. Boat weighs about 7,500 trailer probably adds another 3,000. My 1500 Suburban with the towing package and equalizer bars can tow it but it's all that truck can handle. Were I going long distance, I'd have the 3/4 ton version of the truck. I am also a wide load so I have to get permits for my route when I tow it and comply with all the signage. Because I am not an "Oversize Load" , I don't need a pilot car(s). I only tow locally so its not a huge problem but for a long distance trip it would require quite a bit more planning and logistics.

If I were you, I would go with the commercial hauler. My 2 cents.
 
Jul 14, 2015
840
Catalina 30 Stillhouse Hollow Marina
If towing you also need to consider bridge clearance. You will most likely be at 13 feet plus if towing with mast over pulpit.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
You bought an almost 40 year old Catalina 30 with a dead motor that you need to move?

I'm guessing that finding a working local boat would have cost much less in the long run. Am I missing something?

A newer 30 with a diesel in Erie PA for 13K. Thats gotta be less than what you in that one for. And you could easy sail/motor this one home.

http://www.boattrader.com/listing/1986-catalina-30-102640403

Maybe won't help you, but a public service announcement for anyone looking at older used boats to look the the TOTAL cost of procurement, and long term ownership.
 
Jan 16, 2017
12
Catalina 30 Milford, CT
I would tell you more - I was always dreaming of, but never sailed before :) Yeh, it may sound crazy, but there are couple of catches here: 1. I do like restoring/fixing things. So in certain way I was looking for a "project" boat and 2. the price was right. Even if I have to drop the whole idea, I wouldn't lose a lot. But so far I am quite optimistic about this. Dreams should come true, don't they?
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
I would tell you more - I was always dreaming of, but never sailed before :) Yeh, it may sound crazy, but there are couple of catches here: 1. I do like restoring/fixing things. So in certain way I was looking for a "project" boat and 2. the price was right. Even if I have to drop the whole idea, I wouldn't lose a lot. But so far I am quite optimistic about this. Dreams should come true, don't they?
Well they SHOULD for sure. ;^). Enjoy the ride.
 
Jan 16, 2017
12
Catalina 30 Milford, CT
Folks have put outboards on Catalina 30s. It's ugly, and the prop will come out of the water in chop, but it's been done. If you google it you'll get lots of hits.

You don't mention where in NY the boat is, and that may be a major factor. I'm not sure I'd want to cross 140 miles of Lake Ontario in the winter no matter if the engine runs or not.

If you can turn a wrench, I'd first try to find out if the A4 is salvageable. If it's truly siezed, a reman from Moyer Marine is around $5K. The C-30 is likely one of the easiest boats to pull an engine out of. Ya may want to reconsider fixing it where it is.
What would be the best way to check what is wrong with the engine? I got the boat from the third party and they do not know what exactly happened. Just saying it is "frozen". I will be visiting the marina where the boat is and thought of removing the engine and taking it back home to see if it can be repaired. Will I need a crane to get it off the boat (it sits on the cradle)? Besides the engine itself what other parts will I need to remove/take home?
 
Mar 10, 2015
62
Catalina 30 Moss Landing, CA
Dropping in a rebuilt A-4 might be the cheapest way out if the engine is the primary problem, but there will be numerous other problems evident or cropping up if your boat is typical of an old, neglected C30. So if you are committed to this project, a professional survey of the boat including sails would be the first step if this hasn't been done, considering your total inexperience with sailboats. But I agree with a previous poster that a functional boat bought near your home port would be a better, ultimately cheaper solution. And you will still have all the restoring and fixin' you want!

Don't even consider towing it yourself, as you will have a boat & trailer near 15,000 lbs. - way beyond a 3/4 ton truck's specs. I've towed a 7500 lb rig (Sea Pearl 28 cat ketch weighing 5000#) from coast to coast, and British Columbia to Baja, with a 3/4 ton Surburban with 7.3L engine and wouldn't want much more than that chasing me. Get a pro here!
Pete