Urgent - McGreggor Lost Law Suit

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OldCat

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Jul 26, 2005
728
Catalina , Nacra 5.8, Laser, Hobie Hawk Wonmop, CO
The Real Story?

The link below was posted on Trailer Sailor - it appears to be the decision on the case in question. The case appears more complex than the descriptions here in this thread. Specifically -witness testimony about the lighting on the Mac and the impact of the turn to port upon the decision. Are you sure the Mac lighting was maintained and your FIL had it on properly, or the battery not run down? Also - this appears to be a Supreme Court decision - here that would mean a top appeals court - but I don't know what that term means in Canada. Has the case already been decided on appeal? Sorry to say it Rex, but to an outsider - it quite appears that the case could go against your FIL for several reasons. It is good that you are talking to a maritime lawyer - hopefully that will give you a realistic professional opinion on the case in all of its aspects. A real concern for the rest of us - did the insurance company flake out - or did your FIL not have proper insurance?
 
May 6, 2004
916
Hunter 37C Seattle
Judge was correct per OldCat's link

Witness saw the unlit sail boat and yelled at it. In a bow-on crossing sail boat under power turned to port. So unlit boat under power at night turns to port and takes a hit half way down starboard side. Black hull to boot. Judge's finding that sailboat was unlit was correct, given the evidence. Decision that if lights were on they were inadequate, doesn't mean manufacturer has fault. Inadequate lighting could be from many sources not related to the type, placement and condition of the lights when the boat left the factory. A guess as to why insurance on the sail boat doesn't want to pay out under the liability coverage ( it probably paid for the hull value of the sailboat already) is because it probably had an opportunity to settle with the injured power boaters, but didn't because the sail boat insured said his lights were on, when a true statement at best would have been " I flipped the running light switch, but never checked to see if they came on." So then the gas station attendant witness pops up and says no lights on the black hulled sailboat 5 minutes before the crash. Most insurance policies obligate the policy owner to be truthfull with the insurance company. Breach of this obligation entitles the insurance company to deny all coverage. So once it becomes obvious to the insurance company that the sail boat was unlit, ( and how to say this, that the policy owner wasn't exactly forthcoming) it sends a reservation of rights letter to the owner saying we have the right to not pay the judgment, but we will continue pay for the attorney to defend the liability claim through trial and see what the outcome is. When the judge finds the sail boat was unlit then the insurance company is entitled to deny all coverage. I am speculating on the insurance stuff, but not on the correctness of the court decision given the evidence.
 
R

Rex Baldwin

Update

My FIL had proper insurance and the insurance company said they were going to take over the appeal and then renaged on this a week ago. The deadline for appeal is August 29th. The lights were in good working order and on (as sustained by witnesses). The judge, whom was not a boater, said that they were obviously not bright enough. That's a "judgment call" - never thought I'd actually use that expression in true context. I just spent an hour on the phone with one of the top Maritime Lawyers in Canada, here in Vancouver, who reviewed the judgement document and a whole host of other info. He was superb and basically we covered all basis. For your general knowledge I will explain the basic summary of what he said against the prior options 1. Appeal. Judge started statement with based on "fact & Credibilty" which makes the case very difficult to appeal. Bottom line is that even if we won the appeal and it went 50/50 we would be out of pocket by more than US$40K due to costs. If we lost we would be in a worse position and if we gained a 100% reversal, which is pretty much unheard of we would have to repay the already refunded insurance costs. Several years, losts of court costs and low probability of this. 2. Insurance - Wrongful Denial. This is what we are going after as they have to prove that there was a valid serious reason for non payment. If not they will have to pay punitive damages and in this case either the insurance company or brokerage house will have to pay out. If the FIL screwed up then he is SOL. If the FIL Lawyer screwed up with the insurance company then we can go after him. I'll find out this later and post an update, probably by the end of the week. 3. The Lawyer - only under point 2 above do we have cause. According to the Judgement the lawyer did appear to act in the best interests of the FIL and even with the Transcript then this would be difficult and expensive. 4. McGregor - this one would be valid but would only be valid under a class action. Based on the judgement their is an even chance of going down this route but again it would be expensive and their is no evidence either way that the lights were at falt because of issuance or whether they were well maintained. It would also involve a third party inclusion of whom manufactured the lights. As an ex Brit and now Canadian I am not a big litigation for stupid reasons, which is prevelant in NA and so would not be inclined to go down this route unless someone would have died. So now we are proceeding with option 2. We can delay payment of the US$40K for some time but our new lawyer is going to handle all of this. If the insurance company has valid cause my FIL could be SOL. If I know anymore then I'll send an update. Thanks again. Rex.
 
Jun 7, 2004
334
Coronado 35 Lake Grapevine, TX
Not Only Lighting

I'm glad there was a link to judge's ruling, as it cast this whole thing in a different light, no pun intended. First of all, the initial statement that this will "set precedent" just isn't so. The judge didn't say the original lighting wasn't adequate, only that the boat wasn't adequately lit. That could mean the lights were too dim, or not on. In spite of the assertion that witnesses said the lights were on, other witnesses said they weren't. The judge had to use her judgement on that one. But, beyond the lighting, there's the factor of turning. Let's assume that this had happened in the daytime, so we take the lighting issue out of it. What would have been the result had a powerboat been coming head on towards ANOTHER POWERBOAT (a sailboat running it's motor is a powerboat), and one of the boats turned to port while the other went straight, resulting in a collision? The result would have been a finding that the boat that turned to port would have been the boat mostly at fault. It's that simple. A sharp maritime lawyer might (probably) have gotten a ruling that both parties were at fault, but I would bet that the finding would be that the boat turning to port bore most of the fault. I'd also say that two boats colliding bow on would have likely resulted in a lot less damage than a bow to midships collison. Sorry Rex, but I believe you FIL was at fault on this one. That said, without speculating wildly as in the post below, the insurance company should have paid. My guess is that your FIL's only real hope is the one you're pursuing, go after the insurance company.
 
R

Rex Baldwin

What a mess

I hear you loud and clear. I am just picking up this mess. Canadian collison regs state make a clear and decisive manuoever to starboard BUT do whatever it takes to avoid a collision. If that means going to port then so be it. I just heard back from the Insurance Co and they are denying because they have said Marty did not inform them in due time that he was going after personsal accident re-imbursement and that he was being counter sued. The irong is that the lawyer said he was representing both parties but they have nothing in writing. Lesson for them is that everything needs to be in writing. The Insurance Co is denying that he represented them and that they never said that they were taking it over and not to worry. Taped coversations are legal in Canada but my in-laws do not have that capability. I have negotiated about 10 major settlements in my business career and even took the Dutch and English to court in 1988-91 and settled out of court. Long story but I hate taking over losing propositions. I have retained the best lawyer in the North West and we'll see what happens. I'll keep my fingers crossed. Summary would be "you pay peanuts you get monkeys" also applies to the legal system. We maybe SOL but at least I have tried my best and I really appreciate all your input/feedback. This is the first real website that I have found where the chat rooms actually help. Thanks again to you all. I'll let you know what happens.
 

Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,139
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Re: Insurer's Position

Generally, before the insurer can disaffirm coverage, they must prove your FIL's actions in the defense of the suit disadvantaged them. To that end, they would have the burden of proof that the defense was incompetent, a hard thing to prove. So, an action against them would seem appropriate.
 
May 10, 2004
207
Beneteau 36 CC Sidney, BC, Canada
Hey Earl - I know Kim Wigmore as well

Check out the link. I am a lawyer in Victoria. In sole practice for 23 years. I used to teach Kim Sunday School at the Alliance Church in Tsawwassen BC
 
Jul 1, 1998
3,062
Hunter Legend 35 Poulsbo/Semiahmoo WA
Rex - re: Postings on Internet

Rex - I started reading this thread but lost it a while ago because I'm trying to cast off the docklines and go on vacation but I thought I'd say something about posting on the internet. Don't know if it matters or not but I wouldn't say anything on this web site that you wouldn't want some opposing lawyer to read and perhaps mention in the courtroom. These internet searches are really good and if things get elevated, courtroom-wise, they'll probably find it. I'm trying to head north and get some sailing time in before the rains set in for good. Will make one stop at Victoria and I've got my charts up to Shearwater but no plans. Good luck in your battle.
 
Aug 24, 2005
15
- - Halcyon
Inconsistency’s and probable bias of the Judge

I have read the Honorable Madam Justice A.W. MacKenzie Decision and completely disagree with relevant assertion, interpretations and assumptions! First let me state in my opinion. I find it completely unconscionable that The Honorable Madam Justice A.W. MacKenzie took a 22 year old Wake Borders testimony as absolute fact. Considering that three eye witness on shore countered his testimony. The fact that he also is a Power Boater and a Wake Bordered concerns me, I am fully aware of the long history of animosity that Power boaters, Wake borders, Jet skiers and Water skiers have for Rag Hangers, Rag Hangers as we all know is the derogatory term these individuals use in reference to slow moving Sailboats, Sailboats that almost always have right away to their activities causing in their eyes much unneeded aggravation and inconvenience. It is common knowledge that almost all of these individuals harbor some form of animosity towards sailors and sailboats. His testimony could possible have been the result of ulterior motives such as coming to the rescue of a fellow Power boater. First His testimony came after the initial investigation and apparently was never taken by investigators at the scene, then he states that he was asked to help the search and rescue team then he was rudely told to leave. Surely if this was the case then one of the first responders would have remembered him. Then after reading about it in then news paper, out of the kindness of his heart he decided to tell his story. This sounds suspicious to me. Surely three eye witness on shore who have no obvious reason to lie and who’s testimony are contradictory to his should have been sufficient to question the reliability of his testimony. There were quite a few portions of testimony by either Ms. McKenzie, Mr. Schell and Mrs. Mellow that indicated quite clearly that MR Thatcher’s sailboat did indeed have its running lights lit. Yet the Honorable Madam Justice A.W. MacKenzie decided that our 22 year old Power boater was indeed the most reliable. And that his testimony alone out weighed all the eye witnesses on shore “Ms. McKenzie said she yelled at Mr. Schell just before the accident because a big green light suddenly appeared.” This could have been Mr. Thatcher’s starboard navigation light and indeed a green light would have been visible if he had turned to port as he claimed. The Honorable Madam Justice A.W. MacKenzie stated that she believed these to be reflections from Mr Schell own boat. Because MR Thatcher’s tiny lights could not have possibly produced such a bright light. What does she base this fact upon? possible bias?. Tiny or not if Mr. Thatcher’s running lights where lit as I believe them to be, then his nav lights met the requirements at the time the vessel was commissioned. And it’s not up to The Honorable Madam Justice A.W. MacKenzie to redefine internationally agreed upon requirements. “Mrs. Mellow also thought the light on the sailboat was red” This is of particular importance! If I fully understand the heading of both vessels. Mr Thatcher said he turned to port “In the direction of the shore” if this was indeed the case then Mrs. Mellows who was on shore would have indeed seen his red port light. To me this indicates consistency, not inconsistence as The Honorable Madam Justice A.W. MacKenzie stated. Once again possible bias? The Honorable Madam Justice A.W. MacKenzie stated Quote “Apart from the fact there is no evidence before me of a speed limit on the lake” Mr. Schell was in direct violation of rule 19 b “Every vessel shall proceed at a safe speed adapted to the prevailing circumstances and condition of restricted visibility. A power driven vessel shall have her engines ready for immediate maneuver.” According to Ms. McKenzie own testimony Quote “She could only guess how far from the shoreline the boat was and she did not wish to hazard a guess in these circumstances. Because it was dark, you could only see a few feet in front of the boat.” Quote “Because it was dark, you could only see a few feet in front of the boat” once again rule 19b “Every vessel shall proceed at a safe speed adapted to the prevailing circumstances” According to all testimony it was a very dark evening and the water was like glass, I fully believe that operating a power driven vessel at high speed on a plane during hours of reduced visibility is in direct violation of rule 19b and that Mr. Schell should have reduced his vessel to displacement speeds and preceded with caution. Especially considering their vessels proximity to shore. A shore line where high power shore lights can reflect onto the water easily over powering a small vessels navigation light. Lights reflecting onto the water from bright street lights, homes, and especially shore based signal lights (RED and Green) make it very difficult to ascertain whether a light on the water is a reflection or a boats navigation lights ! Quote “He and Ms. McKenzie were behind the windshield.” Was this a plastic windshield, was it in good condition was there glare on it. Or for that matter what was the dew point? could condensation on the windshield have further reduced their visibility if so could this have affected their ability to keep a proper look out at night as required. Once again Mr. Schell should have reduced his vessel to displacement speed and proceeded with caution. The Honorable Madam Justice A.W. MacKenzie stated Quote “I find that Mr. Thatcher’s sailboat was either unlit, or, if it did have on its small red/green running lights, that lighting was so deficient that the sailboat was not visible to the defendants,” Quote “[89] Rule 21(e) is also particularly relevant because it defines the required “all around light” as a light showing an unbroken light over an arc of the horizon on 360 degrees. I have clearly found that Mr. Thatcher’s boat, which is subject to the Rule, displayed no such white light, or any light for that matter, on its stern.” This where The Honorable Madam Justice A.W. MacKenzie made a serious error in interpretation. This error could be grounds for possible appeal Rule 21 (e) is not a rule per say but a definition of terms used in following subsections . Rule 21 (e) is merely a definition and defines that an “all around light is a light visible in a 360 degree arc. Rule 21e does not define whether or not Mr. Thatcher 26 foot sailing vessel requires such a light. As The Honorable Madam Justice A.W. MacKenzie apparently interpreted. >>> Possible cause for appeal It is Rule 23 that clearly defines the required navigation lights. Mr Thatcher overall boat length is below 12 meters and above 7 meters Mr. Schell boat falls below 7 meters On motor driven vessels less then 12 meters and greater then 7 meters an all around white light is optional and not a requirement! The requirement is a forward facing white light"steaming light", red and green side lights and a white light facing aft. Or an optional all around white light replacing the rear and forward facing white lights. A copy of Rule 23 along with Rule 21 will be posted It is painfully obvious that The Honorable Madam Justice A.W. MacKenzie either did not fully read the relevant rules or was unable to fully understand them. In either case The Honorable Madam Justice A.W. MacKenzie’s misinterpretations of the relevant rules and circumstances to which they apply shows that justices should be required to have experience dealing with maritime issues before being allowed to preside over maritime cases
 
R

Rex Baldwin

Response

Thanks Oday - that last posting was superb and I agree 100%. This is a true travesty. I have passed this email link onto my lawyer for feedback but am truly disappointed at 1. The justice system and 2. The lack of ownership of the liability insurer. Even if it is deemed that the FIL made some mistakes in process, isn't it the insurer's responsibility to inform the insured of the best course of action and what they will or will not pay for under the liability insurance or at worst isn't it the insurer's obligation to inform the broker as they have some liability in this as well? I am still shy a whole stack of correspondence, which I am getting by UPS but from my perspective the insurer should cover the insured, even if the insured did not follow due process, becuase unless he has been informed of due process in writing then they are escaping on a technicality? The UK got over this over 15 years ago as the competiveness for insurance policies became decided on speed of settlement. The insurer in this case has still technically not informed my client of the denial in writing, with the deadline for appeal set at Aug 29th. If I had not got involved and called the insurance company myself and retained a marine lawyer, they would still be "pissing in the wind". The in-laws, not having been involved in legal cases before and with the threat of having to sell their house, you can imagine the stress that this family is under and the stress that their daughter and myself are now under to get this resolved. I am truly hoping that following conversations between my lawyer and the insurance company that they honour their policy as to them C$50K is nothing but to my in-laws its their world right now. Kind regards, Rex. PS: Thanks for the heads up re legal usage of emails/postings. I am aware of that and so have not typed anything I would not say in court. I am truly disappointed at our legal system and the stance taken by the insurance company. Your replies have given me far more ammunition than the details I have scribed. Thanks again.
 
Aug 24, 2005
15
- - Halcyon
Boating Speed laws in Canada

Hi Rex here are a few interesting findings regarding boating Speed laws in Canada Quote “In most provinces there is a 10 kph speed limit within 30 metres (100 feet) from shore. Fine is $125. Maximum fine is $500 or six months imprisonment. (Canada Shipping Act: Boating Restriction Regulations)” What I find interesting is that this quote only refers to proximity to shore. Almost all similar regulations include proximity to Docks, Moorings, and designated Swimming Areas. I would like to find the actual law in its legal text. I would not be surprised if it does indeed have the same 10 kph speed limit within 30 metres (100 feet) of a designated swimming area. If this is the case then according to testimony the collision occurred within 30 meters of a buoyed swimming area Mr. Schell would have been in violation of the speed limit. I further find it interesting that the Honorable Madam Justice A.W. MacKenzie decided to accept Ms. McKenzie and Mr. Schell testimony that they where only traveling 30 kph while Mr. Thatcher’s testified that they where doing closer to 55 or 60 kph. I have nearly 35 years experience in boating and in my opinion Mr. Thatcher’s estimation seems more likely. I find it highly improbable that a heavily laden 19 foot runabout with three adult passengers on board on flat water was able to get up and maintain an efficient plane at 16 knots or 18 mph. It really looks like this collision was the result of Mr. Schell not maintaining an adequate look out and excessive speed for the prevailing conditions.
 
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Ramblin' Rod - Mac 26D - SeaQuell

There is no question...

...that the ruling was absolutely appropriate. Throw out all of the rhetoric, and this is what it boils down to: The collision occured because: 1. The course of the sailboat was improper, due to the operator violating col regs. 2. The lighting of the sailboat was improper, due to the operator violating col regs. 3. The motor boat operator complied with all col regs. Case closed! I feel sorry for the sailboat owner and his family for their losses, but this is the consequence when your actions cause damage to another's property and personal injury.
 
Aug 24, 2005
15
- - Halcyon
Excerpt’s from Canadian Collision Regulations

Sorry Ramblin' Rod three witnesses on shore testified to seeing navigation lights on the sailboat, Only one person testified that it did not have its lights on. Further more the Powerboat was motoring to fast for the prevailing conditions flying across (50+ kph) a dark lake with only a few feet of visibility is negligent. I also believe Mr. Schell’s power boat might have been on the wrong side of the channel. These folk’s need to find a true maritime attorney, and have this case presided over by a justice experienced in maritime issues. Excerpt’s from Canadian Collision Regulations Rule 9 Narrow Channels (a)A vessel proceeding along the course of a narrow channel or fairway shall keep as near to the outer limit of the channel or fairway which lies on her starboard side as is safe and practicable. Mr. Schell’s vessel was approximately 60 meters from shore and only 30 meters outside a buoyed swimming area to his starboard side If I fully understand this rule this would have placed Mr. Schell’s vessel “excuse the term” on the wrong side of the road. In other words he should have kept the shore line on his starboard side as far away as practical. In other words he should have been as close to the port side of the channel as practical and not hugging the starboard shoreline. This one speaks for it self. Rule 6 Safe Speed Every vessel shall at all times proceed at a safe speed so that she can take proper and effective action to avoid collision and be stopped within a distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions. In determining a safe speed the following factors shall be among those taken into account: (iv) at night the presence of background light such as from shore lights or from back scatter of her own lights,
 
Jun 2, 2004
1,438
Oday 25 pittsburgh
Ramblin, There is always a question....

Ramblin, You nor I were present at the actual event. You nor I were present at the hearing. We do not have all the information no matter what has been written or reported. The info we have recieved is at best forth hand. Then there is point of veiw. The witnesses didn't agree. The boat owner wasn't sure about his lights. I am not saying the sail boat was not wrong nor am I saying the power boat was right. I am questioning the initial post that the Mac's lights were not legal! Rex, I hope your Father-in-Law gets out of this. I also hope that you retract your initial post that Mac was wrong, bad publicity for Mac. The fact is we all make mistakes. I hope your father in law did not cause this accident and if he did I hope the penalty does not devestate him. The judgement seemed heavy. I would hope that an appeals court would see the situation as a two boater mistake and level judgement upon both at a reasonable level. best wishes for a favorable outcome. r.w.landau
 

OldCat

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Jul 26, 2005
728
Catalina , Nacra 5.8, Laser, Hobie Hawk Wonmop, CO
The Real Problem?

I'll disagree the case as a slam dunk - I think several rulings were possible including shared blame. To me though - none of that matters. The real lesson for the rest of us - fighting to the end to be "right" isn't worth it if it costs you your insurance coverage or risks increasing your loss. I'd rather take blame and have insurance pick up the tab than go to court without the support of my insurance company and risk a big loss. I still don't understand how insurance coverage was lost in this case - insurance is there to cover any of us for our mistakes (real or perceived), a wrong turn, lights that fail or whatever. Perhaps it was lost when the lawsuit was pursued against the insurance company's wishes. If I were in the accident and my insurance company thinks I made the error and they want to settle, I'll accept and get on with my life - Its probably the cheapest solution in almost every case. It sounds like Rex's FIL gambled with money they didn't have just to avoid "fault". I don't power a lot - I was not as sharp at powering right of way quick thinking as I now think I should be - even though I could recite the rules they weren't automatic. They are going to become so now. I will actively think and practice RoW rules under power rather than just drive the boat - actively practice powering RoW rules the way I practice MOBs. And never turn to the left.
 
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Ramblin' Rod - Mac 26D - SeaQuell

RW, you are making assumptions...

...and accepting rhetoric as fact. The sailboat needed at least 3 lights on (and in good working order) to be "properly lit". Not one witness for the sailboat operator offered testimony indicating that the sailboat was "properly lit". The operator's own testimony did not even indicate that all required lights were "properly lit", and what he did testify was questionable, and then completely contradicted by a credible witness declaring it was not lit at all. The judge really had no choice but to rule that it was not "properly lit". To rule otherwise would have required credible evidence to be completely ignored. The left turn by the sailboat operator was irrefutably wrong. There is nothing in evidence that indicted the speed of the motorboat contributed to the cause of the accident. Nothing in col regs limited the speed of the motor boat based on the testimony. There was no evidence whatsoever that the powerboater's ability to see a properly lit vessel was impaired. In short, there is no credible testimony that the power boater did even one thing wrong. Based on the testimony, the sailboat was not properly lit, and it turned directly into the path of the motorboat. Had these two things, in direct violation of col regs, and solely in the control of the sailboat operator not occured, the accident (most likely) wouldn't have happened. As a poster stated, none of us was there and knows what really happened, but based solely on the evidence (which is what the judge must rule on) described by the court records and findings, the judge ruled correctly IMHO.
 
Aug 24, 2005
15
- - Halcyon
My post is not rhetoric!

Rod are you sure you read the Judges decision or did you read a biased article. My post is not rhetoric! I used actual Quotes from the judge and quotes from the testimony of people involved! Three witness on shore testified that they saw navigation lights on the boat in fact the color they clamed to have seen was indeed correct as one witness said it was red and that’s the color she would have seen if she was viewing the sailboats port side. Further more she would not have been able to see the stern light or the mast head light if the boat was 90 degrees to her!! She clamed to have seen the outline of a sailboat and that indicates the sailboat was 90 degress to her view and she also saw a red light QUOTE “Mrs. Mellow also thought the light on the sailboat was red” The fact that she could see the red port light from her porch on shore over a 100 meters away indicate that the lights where adequate. Quote “The left turn by the sailboat operator was irrefutably wrong.” Rod it is you that are wrong. I have held my USCG Master’s ticket for over 20 years and am well aware of the rules Mr. Thatcher stated he only turned the boat to port when it was obvious that a collision was eminent. Color regs state that both boats should turn to starboard. This only applies when its obvious that both boats see each other.. looks like you better do some studying. In his situation it was obvious that the powerboat did not see him at that point color regs clearly state to take any action necessary to prevent a collision. So if turning to port was in the Captains mind the best course of action then it was the proper choice. The only way it would have been an issue is if the other Captain had expected him to turn to starboard and testified to that fact. In this case the other Captain did not even know the vessel was there. So turning to port or starboard played no part in the outcome, a collision was eminent. If he would have turned to starboard then he would have been hit on the port side the side he was most likely sitting on. The choice to turn to port just might have saved his life. As far as no evidence showing that the power boat was traveling to fast for the conditions at the time let me quote a witness on the power boat and then the relevant law According to Ms. McKenzie own testimony Quote “She could only guess how far from the shoreline the boat was and she did not wish to hazard a guess in these circumstances. Because it was dark, you could only see a few feet in front of the boat.” Quote “Because it was dark, you could only see a few feet in front of the boat” The collision occurred 60 meters from shore with a street running parallel. Canadian Collision Regulations Rule 6 Safe Speed Every vessel shall at all times proceed at a safe speed so that she can take proper and effective action to avoid collision and be stopped within a distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions. In determining a safe speed the following factors shall be among those taken into account: (IV) AT NIGHT THE PRESENCE OF BACKGROUND LIGHT SUCH AS FROM SHORE LIGHTS OR FROM BACK SCATTER OF HER OWN LIGHTS, International Color Regs Once again rule 19b “Every vessel shall proceed at a safe speed adapted to the prevailing circumstances” According to all testimony it was a very dark evening and the water was like glass, I fully believe that operating a power driven vessel at high speed on a plane during hours of reduced visibility is in direct violation of rule 19b and that Mr. Schell should have reduced his vessel to displacement speeds and preceded with caution. Especially considering their vessels proximity to shore. A shore line where high power shore lights can reflect onto the water easily over powering a small vessels navigation light. Lights reflecting onto the water from bright street lights, homes, and especially shore based signal lights (RED and Green) make it very difficult to ascertain whether a light on the water is a reflection or a boats navigation lights !
 
Aug 24, 2005
15
- - Halcyon
Green Nav marker did not turn to Starboard

This is what happens when Power boat operators Don’t keep a proper look out at night. It seems like more and more Power boaters are relying solely on GPS and chart plotters instead of good seamanship see link I have another Picture I am still looking for where a 40 foot Power boater actually slammed full power into a long cement pier. If these Power boaters can’t see these giant obstacles what chance does a Small Sailboat have
 
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Ramblin' Rod - Mac 26D - SeaQuell

Sorry RW, meant Oday Sailor

Oday Sailor, Please advise where there was clear evidence that: 1. The sailboat was properly lit? 2. The sailboat was not obligated to operate a sound signalling device with 5 short blasts and to turn to starboard? 3. The powerboat was motoring too fast? It's intersting that you claim the testimony of the credible witness should be dismissed because of supposed deep animosity toward sailboaters. Your entire diatribe on this subject drips with the obvious hatred you hold toward powerboaters. How can you claim your opinion is anywhere near unbiased?
 
Aug 24, 2005
15
- - Halcyon
Only one witness

Rod Quote “It's intersting that you claim the testimony of the credible witness should be dismissed” (Only one witness) “Mr. Irwin “ He came forward only after reading about the case in the newspaper. He claims that authorities did not want to take his statement at the scene and told him to leave. I find this suspicious considering the fact that authorities did take statements form three other witnesses who actually witnessed the accident from shore two of them testified that the sailboat did have navigation lights on. Further more MR Irwin had two other people on his boat, how come none of them testified? Maybe they did not what to perjure themselves ??? Quote “Mr. Irwin and his two friends started putting away equipment in the truck” obviously if Mr. Irwin saw an unlit boat and yelled at it then surly his passengers saw it as well how come they did not come forwarded? Three witnesses testifying to no lights would make a difference. Quote “Your entire diatribe on this subject drips with the obvious hatred you hold toward powerboaters” Sorry Rod I have no hatred towards power boaters I am just stating well known fact. The fact that I am an employed USCG Master and pilot (REALLY BIG) powerboats on San Francisco bay kind of makes me a Power boater:) Just because 20 years of experience has shown me that it appears sailors seem to have more respect and understanding for the ocean and boating then power boaters do, does not mean I hate power boaters, that is merely your interpretation of my post.
 
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