Two Years Before The Mast ...

[Scott T-Bird]

The last time I read the book was - a long time ago. Maybe I'll pick it up again and see what has changed.
Flame suit on!

Wow! What a response! Are you advocating for the cruel conditions of the period? Are you pining for the days when brutal punishment enforces slave-like servitude!
Perhaps you should read it again. You may have developed a softer attitude as you have aged, and perhaps you will see how his complaints were far from unreasonable and the experience at sea with his shipmates shaped his life. I think he clearly describes his sympathy for his shipmates and his desire not to be shown special privilege as long as he was in their company. He did seem to have a genuine fear that if his return to education was to be delayed too long, he felt that his future career would be limited to hard labor. I didn't get any sense that he resented being among his shipmates before the mast. He wasn't universally critical of the officers, either, only those that he considered to be cruel and those who were too willing to take advantage of those who were powerless.

 

[Richard19068]

What would be a good source for descriptions? I'm pretty well versed on the sails, masts, and yards, with aid from pictures. It's the various call-outs for running rigging and the various activities related to belaying the rigging that has me bewildered..

Scott, You might try "A Sea of Words". It is a lexicon for Patrick O'Brian's Aubrey/Maturin novels. It is more oriented to British naval terminology a couple of decades before Dana but might have some of the description you are looking for. And if you haven't read O'Brian's books you might want to ( I highly recommend them) and the lexicon would come in handy for that.

 

[LuzSD]

I kept my sailboat in Dana Point back in the very early 90's. They had the Pilgrim, and some other tall ship side by side and would do pirate stuff. It was a hoot to anchor off and watch it with cannon fire, and pirates and wenches swinging from the yard arms.

This is still going on. Sometimes more exciting than others. see article
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/09/tall-ship-cannon-woman-injured.html

 

[jssailem]

This is still going on.

That story explains why some folks should not be allowed near anything that goes bang. Who grabs a box of buckshot when they run out of blanks? Brain Dead!

 

[thinwater]

Sort of the video version. Another young man looking for an experience filmed a trip on a clipper around the horn.

Well worth the time to view.

 

[shemandr]

Calm down and take a breath, Shermandr...

I'm OK. I was never angry. I was just trying to keep the conversation lively. I'm regretting my harsh treatment of Dana.

Perhaps you should read it again. You may have developed a softer attitude as you have aged, and perhaps you will see how his complaints were far from unreasonable and the experience at sea with his shipmates shaped his life.

Yes I am reading it again. In fact I'm reading the 1911 edition and an inscription makes me think the book was actually printed in 1911. And, I'm enjoying the read. It's not as negative as I remember. So my apologies to Scott with regard to bringing harshness to his positive post.
And KG, the term I used is not mine. It was born of the Chinese Cultural Revolution as criticism of the urban educated class. I used it purposefully to describe someone of a wealthy upbringing trying to masquerade as a working man. I was maybe unfair to Dana. From what I've read so far he did his work and was in favor with the Captain so far as the outgoing voyage.
I hoped my post would stimulate some good discussion. Instead I think it was received negatively. And for that I apologize to the forum.

 

[centerline]

I hoped my post would stimulate some good discussion.

It did.... if everyone would have agreed with your perception of the book, there would have been nothing further to discuss, but instead, you prompted others to weigh in on the subject.... its all good

 

[jeepbluetj]

I kept my sailboat in Dana Point back in the very early 90's. They had the Pilgrim, and some other tall ship side by side and would do pirate stuff. It was a hoot to anchor off and watch it with cannon fire, and pirates and wenches swinging from the yard arms.

So two tall ships from Washington state are currently visiting here in Dana Point: the Lady Washington and the Hawaiian Chieftain. So there's 4 tall ships docked at the Marine institute. They go out with passengers on the weekend and fire off the cannons. They were fake-sailing today as I was ghosting along at 2kts, maybe 5 kts of wind from time time. Wind was great leaving the harbor, but just died, maybe a bit more on the way back in. Clocked a 180 wind shift too, sailed on starboard all day. I think half the boats in the harbor went out today... it was a pretty nice day.

Back to the subject.... the cannon blasts were pretty cool. 'twas quite a racket.

 

[sailnoproblem]

It seems this forum has turned into a Oprah book club.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

So my apologies to Scott with regard to bringing harshness to his positive post.
And KG, the term I used is not mine. It was born of the Chinese Cultural Revolution as criticism of the urban educated class. I used it purposefully to describe someone of a wealthy upbringing trying to masquerade as a working man. I was maybe unfair to Dana. From what I've read so far he did his work and was in favor with the Captain so far as the outgoing voyage.
I hoped my post would stimulate some good discussion. Instead I think it was received negatively. And for that I apologize to the forum.

Hey, no need for apologies! We all have our own perspective on things and often times it is shaped by what we may be experiencing at the time. That's why I agreed that you should read it again. My response was all tongue-in-cheek, as my comments often are ( I just don't find the right emoticon!). I'll also admit that there was a point in the book when I wondered about his complaining when he clearly volunteered for the experience. I think there was possibly some selfishness as he finessed his way onto Alert so that he could get home earlier.
People certainly matured earlier in life in those days as hardships that we would consider brutal where more normal in those days. But consider that he was just 19 years old when he signed on and up till then had lived a privileged life. Suddenly, he was thrust (voluntarily) into a hard condition with men that lived a particularly hard life. I think he certainly did some quick growing up, and to his credit, he appeared to be willing to pull his weight, regardless to the fact that he soon realized that this hard life was not to his liking.
Aside from that, if we all read a book and came to exactly the same conclusions, I doubt the book would be so worthy of reading. The books that are most worth reading will certainly create some controversy!

 

[Gene Neill]

I found it fascinating that Dana, later in life, opined that the practice of flogging, as abhorrent as it was, should not be abolished altogether. I have tried briefly to find a link, but failed. Sorry.

Speaking of later in life, if you enjoyed "Two Years" as much as I did, you will probably also enjoy reading "Twenty Four Years Later", the story of Dana's return to California. It is a stark and somewhat bittersweet look at how quickly things in California had changed, even in (or perhaps particularly in) that day and age.

 

[LuzSD]

So two tall ships from Washington state are currently visiting here in Dana Point: the Lady Washington and the Hawaiian Chieftain. So there's 4 tall ships docked at the Marine institute. They go out with passengers on the weekend and fire off the cannons. They were fake-sailing today as I was ghosting along at 2kts, maybe 5 kts of wind from time time. Wind was great leaving the harbor, but just died, maybe a bit more on the way back in. Clocked a 180 wind shift too, sailed on starboard all day. I think half the boats in the harbor went out today... it was a pretty nice day.

Back to the subject.... the cannon blasts were pretty cool. 'twas quite a racket.

We were doing the first of the DPYC series yesterday and we were hoping they didn't have live ammo when we passed by them! YEP, lots of boats enjoying the sunshine and wind when it showed up! We got a little of everything yesterday! Beautiful clear skies and wind for a while, and then there was none!! For us it was up at whistle (buoy) and it completely shut off as we tried to round. Last leg was a blast. Great to be out though, not to rub it in for those of you in cold country.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Great to be out though, not to rub it in for those of you in cold country.

I'm not complaining ... yesterday I warmed up the interior with an electric heater and worked on some plumbing and some planning for electrical upgrades. It was actually pleasant, even with a bit of sleet/snow at the end of the day.

 

[LuzSD]

I'm not complaining ... yesterday I warmed up the interior with an electric heater and worked on some plumbing and some planning for electrical upgrades. It was actually pleasant, even with a bit of sleet/snow at the end of the day.

that actually sounds so awesome to me. I particularly enjoy being on our boat in the rain, down below listening to it pouring down. There is something really great about being ones own cozy boat reading or playing scrabble with a glass of wine or a little rum
.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

Well, it would be even more awesome if the boat was in the water. Last year, there definitely was no ice on the bay or in the marina at any time during the winter. I was expecting to see ice on Saturday after a stretch of cold temps, but this may also end up being an ice-free winter once again. I might try leaving her in the water one of these years, where a marina uses a bubbler for in-water storage. They don't do it where I am now.

 

[NotCook]

Well, it would be even more awesome if the boat was in the water.

LOL. True that!

 

[Kings Gambit]

And KG, the term I used is not mine. It was born of the Chinese Cultural Revolution as criticism of the urban educated class. I used it purposefully to describe someone of a wealthy upbringing trying to masquerade as a working man.

An interesting, if somewhat dubious, comparison. For kicks, you might watch the Canadian film The Red
Violin which, deep in the film, offers a sobering depiction of the fate of Chinese "intellectuals" of that period. It's a good film otherwise as well, although it does have some "slow" parts.

 

[jeepbluetj]

We were doing the first of the DPYC series yesterday and we were hoping they didn't have live ammo when we passed by them! YEP, lots of boats enjoying the sunshine and wind when it showed up! We got a little of everything yesterday! Beautiful clear skies and wind for a while, and then there was none!! For us it was up at whistle (buoy) and it completely shut off as we tried to round. Last leg was a blast. Great to be out though, not to rub it in for those of you in cold country.

I'm guessing I saw you on the way to the last mark. I saw three catalinas sailing wing and wing headed DDW.
If you ever need crew, PM me.

 

[nveater]

Richard Dana also wrote a seaman's manual which was published in 1841. You can get it for free on a kindle or ipad from Amazon- makes fascinating reading

 

[shemandr]

An interesting, if somewhat dubious, comparison.

Probably dubious - when I think about it. Sometimes I don't think enough before I post. I might try to find that film. The Cultural Revolution actually upsets me. It seems like government sanctioned insanity.
I am so far enjoying re-reading of Dana's book.