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Trouble tensioning fore and aft stay.

Discussion in 'Ask A Catalina Owner' started by OsideClyde, May 15, 2018. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. OsideClyde

    OsideClyde

    Joined May 15, 2018
    5 posts, 0 likes
    Catalina 22 MKii Wing Keel
    TBD US Oceanside, Ca
    Hello!
    New sailor and proud new owner of a 2004 C22 Wing Keel.
    I was lucky enough to be the high bidder at a auction for my new C22. I have taken sailing lessons in SD Bay and have a decent grasp on the basics sailing, but as far as rigging goes.......not so much.
    Since I bought it from an auction, I didn't have the previous owner around to give me any advice. I am doing a practice run setting it up at home. While I have done a fair amount of reading about how to set up the rigging, I am having some trouble.
    When I try to tighten the fore and aft stays, I run out of adjustment length on the turnbuckles before it's tightened. I know I have a bit more room on the back stay quick release, but even at the tightest setting, I would still be a few inches short.
    Any thoughts?

    Thanks in advance!
     

    Attached Files:



  2. Will Gilmore

    Will Gilmore

    Joined Oct 19, 2017
    2,396 posts, 977 likes
    O'Day 19
    US Littleton, NH
    Hello OsideClyde,
    Welcome to the forum that will get you everything you've ever wanted in sailing except the sailboat. :) We are so glad to have you join us.
    My first thought is, take off the quick release shackle. That is not a good idea anyhow.
    Next, check the rake angle on your mast. I don't know what the rake for your boat should be, to a small extent, it's your preference, but there is a design tolerance you should work within. There are others here on SBO that will know more about that. Set your rake by measuring/adjusting the forestay. Tighten down the backstay so it is tight but not tight enough to cause the mast to bend.
    If you don't get the rake you need after removing the quick release shackle, a longer 'U' shackle may be in order. You still have two settings of adjustment to shorten your backstay. If that isn't enough, you might look into a shorter turn buckle.
    Nice job with the pictures, good post. I'm interested in seeing how it goes for you.
    Good luck and welcome.

    - Will (Dragonfly)
     


  3. OsideClyde

    OsideClyde

    Joined May 15, 2018
    5 posts, 0 likes
    Catalina 22 MKii Wing Keel
    TBD US Oceanside, Ca
    Awesome! Thanks for the help. Off to West Marine!
     


  4. Scott T-Bird

    Scott T-Bird

    Joined Oct 26, 2008
    3,306 posts, 425 likes
    Starwind 27
    US Barnegat, NJ
    It looks to me like you have attached your forestay to the stem fitting with a snap shackle! That is a HUGE no - no. You shouldn't even use the extra shackle that is used as an intermediate fitting. That U-shaped fitting that is attached to the toggle should be pinned to the stem fitting with the clevis pin. Most folks would also have a problem with that ring ding that you have on the pin. A cotter pin (split pin) is what most folks use. Removing the 2 shackles should eliminate the slack. The snap shackle is used for the sail tack, not the forestay. HTH
     


  5. justsomeguy

    justsomeguy

    Joined Feb 20, 2011
    6,181 posts, 740 likes
    Island Packet 35
    US Tucson, AZ/San Carlos, MX
    And change out that closed-body turnbuckle for an open one.
     


  6. OsideClyde

    OsideClyde

    Joined May 15, 2018
    5 posts, 0 likes
    Catalina 22 MKii Wing Keel
    TBD US Oceanside, Ca
    Aha! New sailor here trusting how the boat was set up by the previous owner!

    I think I understand.....
    On the forestay lose the snap shackle (bad in this application.) Use a U shackle with a clevis pin. Change closed body turnbuckle for an open one.
    On there backstay lose the quick release and use another U shackle.

    Perhaps I should trailer the whole boat down to West Marine and have their rigger check it out for good measure.

    Thanks!
     


  7. Stu Jackson

    Stu Jackson

    Joined Feb 26, 2004
    19,808 posts, 503 likes
    Catalina 34
    US Maple Bay, BC, Canada
    Clyde, congratulation on your fine new boat. We had a 1981 C22. You have, somehow, found this fine forum, where you will get very good input. More specific to your particular boat are C22 forums and websites. FYI, every single Catalina ever made has active owners associations, most of them with websites and forums. I suggest you do another Google search for the C22 Association. Most of the association websites have owners manuals available for download, so you can see how things are supposed to be rigged. Catalina manuals for their single spreader masts all have extremely good instructions for tuning the rig. Scott's right about that snap shackle, indeed, I've removed every snap shackle from every boat I have ever owned - IMHO they are not good pieces of gear except perhaps for spinnakers.
     


  8. Will Gilmore

    Will Gilmore

    Joined Oct 19, 2017
    2,396 posts, 977 likes
    O'Day 19
    US Littleton, NH
    Keep in mind, this is a trailerable and a split pin is a little to permanent for raising and lowering the mast very often. I agree with losing the ring ding thing. Keep it low profile so you don't catch sheets or down hauls or anchor rodes on it and risk dropping the mast accidentally.

    - Will (Dragonfly)
     


  9. Scott T-Bird

    Scott T-Bird

    Joined Oct 26, 2008
    3,306 posts, 425 likes
    Starwind 27
    US Barnegat, NJ


  10. Joe

    Joe

    Joined Jun 1, 2004
    6,384 posts, 300 likes
    Catalina 27
    US Mission Bay, San Diego
    Right of the bat I see you have the forestay hooked up wrong. The "snap shackle" is for the sail's tack and should be pinned to the second or third hole in the stemhead. The turnbuckle for the forestay is then pinned to the leading hole. If you raise and lower the mast a lot, you can use a "quick release pin" for a little more convenience with the turnbuckle. But it's not that much of a hassle once you get used to the split ring. Does that make sense? You should now have plenty of thread to adjust your rake.

    Get an owner's manual and take a look at other C22's. Plenty of content on the net. Try googling "Catalina 22 rigging"
     


  11. OsideClyde

    OsideClyde

    Joined May 15, 2018
    5 posts, 0 likes
    Catalina 22 MKii Wing Keel
    TBD US Oceanside, Ca
    Alright.....now this is making sense. I think five of you told me how to do it right, but the way Joe phrased it hit home.
    I didn't think that the last owner could have been too out of whack regarding the rigging. I found a loos gauge in the cabin which leads me to think that he cared to tune it somewhat correctly.

    I re-connected the forestay. I am thinking that the quick release on the backstay is to facilitate easier trailering. The tension is now good. Assuming the rake is correct....this should be alright? .....Except for the evident difference of opinion regarding the snap ring, cotter pin, or quick release pin issue.....and the closed turnbuckle.

    Thanks again everyone. I may just make it sailing tomorrow after all! forestay.jpg
     


    Last edited: May 15, 2018
  12. Scott T-Bird

    Scott T-Bird

    Joined Oct 26, 2008
    3,306 posts, 425 likes
    Starwind 27
    US Barnegat, NJ
    There you go, now it is looking good!

    As already discussed, set the rake with your forestay while the back stay is slack. The rake can be measured by hanging something heavy off your main sail halyard (while you are in the water and floating on the boat's lines) and measuring the distance between the (make-shift) plumb bob and the trailing edge of the mast at the boom height. You have to be really still while you are doing this. Your manual should tell you what the desired rake is, but it will be in the order of a few inches. I have a taller mast, and I shoot for 6" rake. After you have the rake set right (and it is really tedious after you have to wait for the boat to settle down after every adjustment), then you tension the backstay. You do not have to worry about messing up the rake by tensioning the backstay - The fore stay and the back stay will be tensioned (and stretched) equally as you tension the back stay and the mast should stay in the same position. Get instructions for the Loos gauge to tension all of your stays correctly.
     


  13. robcooper0767

    robcooper0767

    Joined Sep 27, 2013
    36 posts, 2 likes
    Pearson 30 (sold in 2015)
    US Upper Chesapeake
    I think it's the same boat I was looking at on Sunday, after I found it on-line (day late and.....) I've asked the folks at Otay if it sold, but I'm not hearing back. If it is the same boat, CONGRATS!! She's a beaut!!! Do you mind saying what the final cost was? Just wanted to have a data point for my continued search. ENJOY!!
     


  14. robcooper0767

    robcooper0767

    Joined Sep 27, 2013
    36 posts, 2 likes
    Pearson 30 (sold in 2015)
    US Upper Chesapeake
    Otay Auto Auction, to clarify...thanks
     


  15. OsideClyde

    OsideClyde

    Joined May 15, 2018
    5 posts, 0 likes
    Catalina 22 MKii Wing Keel
    TBD US Oceanside, Ca
    Ha! That's the one! I wanted the boat so bad that the morning after it was posted, I figured out the general area where it was by looking at the photos that were posted in Craigslist. I went to Otay and peaked over yard storage yard fences till I found it!

    I was hoping a shipping Co. was selling it do to non-payment. I was bummed when I found out that a auction company had it. Worked out though. I won the auction on Saturday and am very happy with the price I paid........Which was a bit north of the $2500 they listed it for, but quite a bit under book.
     


  16. robcooper0767

    robcooper0767

    Joined Sep 27, 2013
    36 posts, 2 likes
    Pearson 30 (sold in 2015)
    US Upper Chesapeake
    Damn!! :) You got a steal!!! I found it on their auction site, not CL. Book is way over $2500 for that boat. If you got it for under $5000....you should be VERY happy. And you avoided a bidding war with me!!!
    I sold my Pearson 30 in 2015, and have been looking since then. Wanted a smaller outboard boat, that I've sailed many times before and enjoy....probably should have just gone that route years ago when I bought the P30. C22's are great boats. I'm having a hard time whether to get a New Design or a MKII. Love the size and exterior of the MKII (and updates), but really like the interior of the New Design (I like the table placement, size, and seating better)....If I could get a MKII with a New Design interior I'd be in heaven!! Did you look at both designs as well? Again, congrats. I can't understand who would have donated a 2004 boat in that condition, with motor and trailer, when they could have done well pricing it "low" and having a quick sale...puzzles me.
     


  17. Jacktar

    Jacktar

    Joined Sep 14, 2014
    580 posts, 202 likes
    Catalina 22
    US Pensacola, Florida
    For quick and dirty tuning of rig just run a length of light line with a plumb bob on the end up the main halyard and if swing keel set the rake, tension between fore and back stay so line crosses at about 6 inches out on the boom. For side to side take a 50 ft tape measure (5 bucks at harbor freight up the jib halyard and make both lengths from top to deck edge by tightening the shrouds the same length with turnbuckles. Just by feel you can make them same tightness by just pushing in each one an inch or two the same ht above the deck. See the 1977 basic manual for these simple steps.
     



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