tried to ruin my day

JRacer

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Aug 9, 2011
1,331
Beneteau 310 Cheney KS (Wichita)
That sucks, J. When the difference between the OEM replacement and the aftermarket is that dramatic, something had to give! Pay me now or pay me later!
 
Jul 7, 2004
8,402
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
I thought this DB Electrical place looked solid. They have a good marking dept anyway. I will cringe, but I will buy the Yanmar/Hitachi. I only hope the cause is inferior materials and not something else on the engine.

The first starter to break didn't look like a Yanmar starter so it wasn't worth rebuilding. It's a shame the previous owner that bought it didn't have the original rebuilt instead. DB didn't require a core either.

The Yanmar warranty is only half, 6 months for 4X the cost. Lord give me strength!
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,992
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
@Justin_NSA When I took my dying starter into the shop, the guy played with the shaft and announced. This on is toast. Then he proceeded to show me the lack of a clutch and worn bearings. Said the cost of rebuild would be more than the cost of a new one built locally for the trucking industry. It appeared the unit I had was original 1974 vintage. So I said done. Have it for you by 4 pm. @LeslieTroyer says my jaw dropped near the floor. But I did a quick recovery and said sounds good.
 
Aug 1, 2011
3,972
Catalina 270 255 Wabamun. Welcome to the marina
Justin, you did say that it's hard starting. (just a thought) If it's bucking and coughing, that load has to go someplace, and it's conceivable to suggest that the starter is getting at least some of that bucking. and passing through the bearing to the case.
 
Jul 7, 2004
8,402
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
I hope I can fish the piece out without a haul-out and trans separation. Until I do that I won't order the new starter. Niemiec says the 6 month warranty clock starts on the date of sale.
 
Jul 7, 2004
8,402
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
Justin, you did say that it's hard starting. (just a thought) If it's bucking and coughing, that load has to go someplace, and it's conceivable to suggest that the starter is getting at least some of that bucking. and passing through the bearing to the case.
No. Someone suggesting timing. It's a logical theory. It just takes a little throttle and some cranking. A few seconds. No bucking, coughing etc. I should drain and refill the fuel tank during this.
 
Mar 26, 2011
3,400
Corsair F-24 MK I Deale, MD
Exactly !! They wouldn't have been able to help anyway. It's not like you can get out and push!
However, you can sail very close and then kedge in or get a dinghy tow. Skills worth knowing. I've sailed in a few times for similar reasons. Just be safe.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,665
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
The Yanmar warranty is only half, 6 months for 4X the cost. Lord give me strength!
A Lexus/Toyota is 4X the cost of the Yugo too and heck they're both "cars".... You're not comparing apples to apples here you're comparing apples to curdled/sour milk...
 
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Jul 7, 2004
8,402
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
A Lexus/Toyota is 4X the cost of the Yugo too and heck they're both "cars".... You're not comparing apples to apples here you're comparing apples to curdled/sour milk...
I don't know how to respond to that. 2 starters, 2 companies. We're talking warranties here.
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,665
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
I don't know how to respond to that. 2 starters, 2 companies. We're talking warranties here.
Toyota and Honda both still have 3 year / 36k warranties and they both lead the pack in terms of resale value, residual value and reliability. Other brands may have better warranties because they need them in order to sell the product where Toyota & Honda don't. Think of the Hitachi or Denso products as the Toyota's or Honda's.

As Tommy Boy said...

Tommy: Here's the way I see it, Ted. Guy puts a fancy guarantee on a box 'cause he wants you to feel all warm and toasty inside.
Ted Nelson: Yeah, makes a man feel good.
Ted Nelson: But why do they put a guarantee on the box?
Tommy: Because they know all they sold ya was a guaranteed piece of $hit. That's all it is, isn't it? Hey, if you want me to take a dump in a box and mark it guaranteed, I will. I got spare time. But for now, for your customer's sake, for your daughter's sake, ya might wanna think about buying a quality product.

Could not resist that quote... :biggrin:
 
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Jul 7, 2004
8,402
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
Gotcha Main. Do you think 6 months is acceptable for a new high quality starter? Seems short for me. Good thing it's not going on during the off season. The warranty would be over before you are in the water!
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,665
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
Gotcha Main. Do you think 6 months is acceptable for a new high quality starter? Seems short for me. Good thing it's not going on during the off season. The warranty would be over before you are in the water!
Absolutely. There was a time, not too long ago, where nothing auto-electric related had any warranty. And go figure the stuff lasted 30+ years instead of 6 months. Heck the Denso alternator and starter in my wife's Acura have approx 250,000 miles on them, in 11 years, with no signs of giving up the ghost. If they fail there is no way in hell I am replacing them with a cheap Chinese made no-name knock off. Her antique Mercedes is a 1979 and at 39 years old and 230k miles it still has the factory original starter and alternator. I replaced the brushes in the alt last year and it cost me $11.67 in parts.

Please do not get hung up on warranties they really mean squat in the whole scheme unless the company behind it is sincere & legit.

Right out of college I was a manufacturers rep in the hydronics industry. We had a line of electric water heaters all with varying warranties and prices. The only catch was there was absolutely zero difference between the long warranty water heater and the short warranty other than the price and a "5 year" or "10 year" sticker.. I other words you paid for the warranty. All the water heaters were designed to outlast the warranty regardless of which warranty you paid for. Over 99.9% of them did outlast the warranty but it put a nice fat margin on the bottom line, in a very competitive market, as most people bought the one with the better warranty, thinking they got a better product, when all they got was an expensive warranty they likely never would use.

Because lots of folks insist on buying the cheapest product they can find, instead of the best quality they can find, we recently lost a very valuable solar supplier. Kyocera pulled out of the US market rather than selling crap to compete. Some companies have ethics and reputations to uphold which, to companies like Kyocera, are actually worth something. Kyocera refused to cheapen the product in order to compete.

Over ten years ago I was warning folks to stay away from the copy-cat semi-flexible solar panels made in China. These days hardly a day goes by, on solar forums or groups, where someone has not had a fire or has a failed or under performing copy-cat semi-flexible panels.

I know it is getting harder and harder to actually buy brand name stuff due to shady marketing so you need to have these things clarified.. Just last week I had to explain to a customer that the dead alternator he bought, thinking it was a Cummins/Leece-Neville replacement was not in-fact a branded product at all, just no-name Chinese junk. Unfortunately it was sold as such, in a very misleading manner. He had it installed last September in MA on his way back from Block Island. It's dead and a real Leece-Neville is on order....
 
Feb 14, 2014
7,399
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
Mine broke from water in the engine oil. Don't ask, but it wasn't me.
It can happen from a backfire too.
Short burst starting. If it doesn't start quickly, look for other problems.
Mine now starts faster than my Landlubber Expedition.
Jim...
 
Jan 7, 2011
4,726
Oday 322 East Chicago, IN
I don’t know if the starter on my O’Day 322 with a Yanmar 2GM20 is original or not, but I have owned her for 5 years, and no issues with the starter.

Mind you, I don’t get out nearly enough to wear mine out. :soapbox:

Greg
 
Jul 7, 2004
8,402
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
The saga continues. Tried last night to fish the piece of starter out and inspect the flywheel teeth. There's no way it's coming out the starter hole :banghead: I am going to have to haul her back out of the water and pull the transmission back to get to it. Since I will be in this deep, I'm going to press a new ring on the flywheel. The teeth are all there but kinda mangled in places. Best to start fresh with the next starter. The job doesn't look so bad. Just frustrating as hell, especially since I really don't know the root cause.
 

JRacer

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Aug 9, 2011
1,331
Beneteau 310 Cheney KS (Wichita)
Sorry to hear that! I'd speculate that the old starter that broke damaged the teeth on the ring gear or the worn teeth killed that starter and then the bad ring ate up the new starter. Think you are going about it the right way. But, definitely a PITA.
 
Jul 7, 2004
8,402
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
Sorry to hear that! I'd speculate that the old starter that broke damaged the teeth on the ring gear or the worn teeth killed that starter and then the bad ring ate up the new starter. Think you are going about it the right way. But, definitely a PITA.
I think it's best to start fresh. Just real frustrating...and expensive
$412 starter, $130 flywheel ring, plus shipping. Then labor to press the ring off and on.
These setups actually have a clutch disk so I'll inspect it as well.
 

JRacer

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Aug 9, 2011
1,331
Beneteau 310 Cheney KS (Wichita)
Could be worse! Could have the top end of the engine in your tow vehicle crap out and need a rebuild, just sayin'. ;-)