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Traveler Upgrade for Beneteau 311

Discussion in 'Ask A Beneteau Owner' started by CapitalistSailor, Mar 1, 2018. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. CapitalistSailor

    CapitalistSailor

    Joined Aug 20, 2013
    108 posts, 13 likes
    Beneteau 311
    US Port Clinton, OH (Lake Erie)
    Jackdaw, do you find that the traveler control lines hanging down from the middle of the traveler get in the way? I don't want to hang anyone climbing up and down in rough weather or in the dark.
     


  2. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    9,026 posts, 2,303 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    Not really, but I’m used to it because the 36.7 is the same way. You wind up using a single line so you always have both ends of it with you. It also helps keep it a little bit neater
     


  3. DougM

    DougM

    Joined Jul 24, 2005
    1,502 posts, 130 likes
    Beneteau 323
    US Manistee, MI
    My 323 has double cheek blocks on the car and on the track ends. The control lines exit and cleat at the ends. I wonder if somewhere in the production run of various models the setup was changed to save a few bucks. My boat was US built very early.
    Anyway, its fairly easy to adjust the traveller to windward even under fairly breezy conditions.
     


  4. stevemitchell

    stevemitchell

    Joined Jan 12, 2016
    137 posts, 6 likes
    Beneteau 311
    US Seattle, WA
    As with anything, trying to take a quick picture of this turned into a more lengthy process. Yesterday was pouring buckets, but I did get things apart today and here are some pics.

    The center car part in mine moves smoothly by hand, but when under any sort of load, those end bits do nothing at all. I'd love to just find a replacement piece for the end, but I'm OK replacing the car assembly as well. I don't want to remove the whole traveler track if I can avoid it.

    The short answer is that there is a sheave inside the end. Pics below.

    IMG_1061.jpg
    IMG_1062.jpg
    IMG_1064.jpg
    IMG_1065.jpg
    IMG_1066.jpg
     


  5. CapitalistSailor

    CapitalistSailor

    Joined Aug 20, 2013
    108 posts, 13 likes
    Beneteau 311
    US Port Clinton, OH (Lake Erie)
    Steve,

    Those are great pictures and thanks for doing all that work. Do you think there is any good way to upgrade the blocks/sheaves to double blocks on top of the car and the ends, or is a replacement for everything except the track the only feasible option? I also notice the standard line looks really tight in the end blocks.
     


    stevemitchell likes this.
  6. stevemitchell

    stevemitchell

    Joined Jan 12, 2016
    137 posts, 6 likes
    Beneteau 311
    US Seattle, WA
    I'm not 100% sure, but the thru-screws that hold the sheave in question could probably just be lengthened and another sheave or something similar added on top. The traveler would be a bit more difficult since it already has stacked sheaves on it, but I am sure someone makes something that might work.

    When I'm back tomorrow morning at the boat, I will see if I can get some measurements for the track and figure out if there are kits from Garhauer or even Lewmar that are still made and what the options are. The track has sort of a beveled edge to it, which is different than other tracks I've seen.

    For sure, this rope needs to be replaced with something a bit smaller and not so old! I had thought I did that but I was thinking of the vane and mainsheet. I'm not going to jump on that until I see if we can upgrade the whole thing for more power...
     


  7. Stu Jackson

    Stu Jackson

    Joined Feb 26, 2004
    19,920 posts, 581 likes
    Catalina 34
    224 CA Maple Bay, BC, Canada
    CS and Steve,

    Much good information sharing.

    Regardless of whether or not you want to replace the track, I suggest you spend some time looking at the options online. I start with Garhauer, best bang for the bucks, but others also show what's important, and why.

    I assume you've looked at their 'sites? Shows why purchase is critical.

    Sheaves and types, end cars and blocks (and the number of them for mechanical advantage), and mainsheet connections.

    One man's "hard-to-ever-move" is another cruiser's "doesn't matter-I-rarely-do."

    I know folks who haven't moved their travelers since they built the boat.

    Then there are those of us who know how to use it, want to use it, and do.

    Good discussion about your options.

    Good luck.
     


  8. CapitalistSailor

    CapitalistSailor

    Joined Aug 20, 2013
    108 posts, 13 likes
    Beneteau 311
    US Port Clinton, OH (Lake Erie)
    Steve, Lewmar’s Synchro blocks look like they would fit as a double block at each location, and the Beneteau 323 seems to have that arrangement (on the Beneteau parts diagram) but I couldn’t find enough details anywhere to figure out what to get. If I lived in Annapolis or someplace with a good store full of blocks and parts I would take the parts there and see what so could do.
     


  9. CapitalistSailor

    CapitalistSailor

    Joined Aug 20, 2013
    108 posts, 13 likes
    Beneteau 311
    US Port Clinton, OH (Lake Erie)
    Stu,

    I’ve looked at the Lewmar Size 2 replacement/upgrade kit for about $600 (on Defender) and Garhauer’s kits for about $500. The Garhauer kit will probably take more work to change out the track and maybe require some new holes in the deck or a some new risers. As discussed above, the Lewmar upgrade kit has the control lines and the cam cleats at the car, and not the ends, which will put the control lines hanging down into the companionway when close hauled. Jackdaw says having the lines there is no big deal, but it seems hazardous.
     


  10. DougM

    DougM

    Joined Jul 24, 2005
    1,502 posts, 130 likes
    Beneteau 323
    US Manistee, MI
    I am fairly certain that if you talked to Garhauer, they would be capable of providing hardware that would fit the existing Lewmar track.
    Looking at your second photo, I can’t understand why that eye splice is there. I would have thought that splice would be shackled to the car. There is so much line in that end that it apppears to be binding causind even more friction. You already mentioned that you know the line is too big for the sheaves as well.
     


    stevemitchell likes this.
  11. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    9,026 posts, 2,303 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    Remember that my traveler is near the aft end of the cockpit. The traveler lines don’t get in the way there. Over the companionway is a different situation. ;-)
     


  12. CapitalistSailor

    CapitalistSailor

    Joined Aug 20, 2013
    108 posts, 13 likes
    Beneteau 311
    US Port Clinton, OH (Lake Erie)
    Jackdaw, thanks. I didn’t realize that was your setup.
     


  13. stevemitchell

    stevemitchell

    Joined Jan 12, 2016
    137 posts, 6 likes
    Beneteau 311
    US Seattle, WA
    Is this the one you were looking at on Defender?

    Which one did you find on Garhauer that looked interesting?

    I had a previous boat with the sheets dangling and it wasn't that big of a deal. Mine now routinely find their way down into the cockpit hatch anyhow, so I'm not that worried about it. Folks are usually a bit more careful when we're under sail anyhow, and I like the way that upgrade kit looks just from the purchase perspective. It looks like it could actually work!

    I used a Lewmar or Harken replacement kit on my last boat, and the sliding holes did work out quite well, and meant I didn't have to drill anything new.
     


  14. stevemitchell

    stevemitchell

    Joined Jan 12, 2016
    137 posts, 6 likes
    Beneteau 311
    US Seattle, WA
    Yeah I have never understood that way of running the lines either. It is not helping when you have the car near one end or the other - everything gets very tight and grumpy.
     


  15. CapitalistSailor

    CapitalistSailor

    Joined Aug 20, 2013
    108 posts, 13 likes
    Beneteau 311
    US Port Clinton, OH (Lake Erie)
    Doug, the eye splice is at the traveler end rather than the car end to enable the purchase to be 4:1. If that length of line is taken out, then only one sheave at the car end would have a line around it the purchase would be 3:1. But I agree that everything is very tight and is probably binding inside the traveler end. I wonder how well it worked when it was new in 2000?

    If the snow and sleet will ever quit I'll run out to the boat and take it apart and try a much smaller line just to see what the resistance and drag is. It might get above 40 this weekend, but they've been saying that for a couple weeks. Puxatawney Phil was right this year.
     


  16. Gunni

    Gunni

    Joined Mar 16, 2010
    5,178 posts, 1,009 likes
    Beneteau 411 Oceanis
    US Annapolis
    The Lewmar traveler does not need that large size line on a 31’ boat, go down a size and keep fresh, unworn line in the system. You should be using a two-hand technique for adjusting the traveler to prevent rope jams.
     


  17. stevemitchell

    stevemitchell

    Joined Jan 12, 2016
    137 posts, 6 likes
    Beneteau 311
    US Seattle, WA
    I'm sure it would work better with new rope, which it had at one point, but it still is woefully undersized purchase for such a gigantic mainsail. Two hands won't really solve the issue. I suspect that is why a similar sail-planned boat, the 323, has a better purchase system.
     


  18. CapitalistSailor

    CapitalistSailor

    Joined Aug 20, 2013
    108 posts, 13 likes
    Beneteau 311
    US Port Clinton, OH (Lake Erie)
    I found a link to a Lewmar catalog that shows older traveler hardware in exploded parts diagrams. The end stops and its internal sheave can be clearly seen on pages 14-15. There is no clear diagram for the the traveler car, but there is a Size 2 genoa car on pages 12-13 that appears to have the same base. The size of the sheaves and the center hole are not listed, although parts numbers are listed. (I searched on the Lewmar site for the sheave part number but nothing came up.)

    https://www.lewmar.com/sites/default/files/Ocean Spares Data.pdf

    I
    also found new Lewmar double sheaves and cam cleats that look like they would mount onto the end stops, SKU LW29172014, $132 each at APS, but for that money I might as well get the upgrade kit for $500, if I can move the cam cleats to the ends.

    The sheaves on the Lewmar end stops use the mounting screws for an axle, with roller bearings (bushings, really) that fits around the screw and inside the sheave. Finding a replacement sheave/block with a bearing insert that will will be difficult.

    On the other hand, I can see from the parts diagram and the pictures sent by stevemitchell that a tear down, cleaning in solvent, adding light grease (as with a winch bearing), and using smaller diameter line might do a great deal of good.

    On my boat I could see that the traveler car had plastic ball bearings, but I couldn't see how the end stops were assembled, so I have never added any grease to any of the traveler parts, just hosed them out thoroughly every spring and during the season when it looked dirty. I also applied some dry Teflon or other dry lubricant to the track and cam cleats.
     


    Last edited: Mar 17, 2018
  19. cymeyer

    cymeyer

    Joined Jul 8, 2005
    398 posts, 5 likes
    Beneteau 321
    US Grosse Pointe Farms, MI
    Capitalist Sailor,
    I know you replaced the lines, but which size line did you install? I had a similar problem but used a slightly smalller line and it is so much better. Used a better quality line as well. Less friction.
    Our boat is 18 years old and never had any maintenance done on the traveler.
     


  20. Gunni

    Gunni

    Joined Mar 16, 2010
    5,178 posts, 1,009 likes
    Beneteau 411 Oceanis
    US Annapolis
    I have the same system on a 41’ boat and a more gigantic mainsail :)
     



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