Trailering a Hunter 23 - negative tongue weight?

Jun 19, 2014
33
Hunter 23 Twin Cities
Picked up my H23 a couple weeks ago and have yet get it on the water (see broken mast foot thread ;) ) While towing it back to my house I noticed that the trailer would start to sway at about 55 mph or so. In reality I didn't feel like I could safely go above 50 mph. One obvious issue I noticed is that the tongue weight was negative (I actually had to push down on the trailer to attach it to the hitch). Now this is a 1990, un-modified trailer in sound condition. Why would it have a negative tongue weight when the boat is completely empty? The pic below was taken right before I got on the highway after buying it. You can see how the back end wants to go down.

Of course it does have a 9.9 hp motor hanging off the back, which alone would solve my problem if moved. But I see sailboats being trailered all the time with the outboards attached, and it would be a pain to have to take the motor off and on every time I trailer. Seems like I am either doing something wrong or the trailer is designed poorly.

Any suggestions on how to increase my tongue weight and how to more safely trailer this boat? Thanks in advance.

 

kito

.
Sep 13, 2012
2,011
1979 Hunter Cherubini 30 Clemmons
Yes, little or negative tongue weight will cause fishtailing. Not sure if your the bar that the winch is attached to is adjustable or not. I can slide mine up or back to adjust the tongue weight. Sounds like yours needs to be slid forward towards the hitch. Actually, looking at the picture, your boat wasn't cranked up far enough. Looks like you have a bow stop that pivots and both bow stops should be against the bow. Looks your 6 inches short. 6 inches can make a huge difference on tongue weight. Fishtailing can get very dangerous especially going down a hill.
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
The hull just aft of the bow should rest on that front roller. The double roller on the bow brace should tilt the other way with the bow tight against it. Ergo; You boat needs to be another 12-16 inches forward. Will make all the difference.
 
May 25, 2004
958
Hunter 260 Pepin, WI
I agree. The bow should be resting on the lower roller, as well as contacting both sets of rollers on the forward stop. Your boat is too far back on the trailer.
 
Jun 19, 2014
33
Hunter 23 Twin Cities
Actually, looking at the picture, your boat wasn't cranked up far enough. Looks like you have a bow stop that pivots and both bow stops should be against the bow.
You are absolutely correct. There is a bit of a story behind that one. The guy who sold me the boat said after he replaced the winch strap that was as far forward as it could go. After I got it home I cranked on it and with a bit of effort it pulled up all the way to the bow stop. Then I looked down at the bow eye and noticed the crack shown below (pretty sure I caused this). Looks like someone had re-caulked around the boy eye and the bolts in back were only finger tight. My fault for cranking on it while the boat was on the trailer but the bow eye should be able to handle that IMO.

I've read about attaching a piece of galvanized pipe to the bow eye from the inside, but my boy eye actually goes through a 1/4" think piece of stainless (?) that attaches to the anchor chain plate. I feel like that gives it more stability than any piece of pipe would.

The problem I have is when I tightened the nuts on the boy eye I could start to here fiberglass cracking, presumably from the edges of the metal plate jamming into the bow from the inside. My feeling is that it doesn't match the contour of the inside of the boat very well. Hope that makes sense. Maybe I'll try and grab some more pictures of what I'm talking about tonight. Obviously this is something that I want to fix the right way.

On a side note, with the bow all the way up to the stops my the hull still did not touch the bottom roller and my tongue weight was still slightly negative.

 
Jun 19, 2014
33
Hunter 23 Twin Cities
In regards to the lower roller, it looks like it can be un-bolted and turned around so it angles back towards the boat. Or maybe I need to move my winch back?
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
On a side note, with the bow all the way up to the stops my the hull still did not touch the bottom roller and my tongue weight was still slightly negative.
Can you move the bunk supports forward? If the trailer is well built it will be adjustable. If they are welded in place you have more work on your hands.
 
Jun 19, 2014
33
Hunter 23 Twin Cities
Can you move the bunk supports forward? If the trailer is well built it will be adjustable. If they are welded in place you have more work on your hands.
Will take a look at that tonight. These are the things that I am learning as a first time sailboat owner. I am already light years ahead of where I was when I bought the boat and I haven't even had it in the water yet. Overall think I got a good deal on this boat but my approach will be very different the next time I go through this!

Here's a pic of the boat (and of my crew helping put the mast up)...

 
Jun 2, 2004
3,390
Hunter 23.5 Fort Walton Yacht Club, Florida
Two Things

First your trailer ball is too high. Your trailer should be level. This will affect your tounge weight though probably not significantly.

Second a 9.9 is too much motor both in power and weight. 6HP is all you need.

The simplest solution is to move whatever you can forward. Moving ten pounds forward is the same as adding twenty pounds in the bow.
 
Sep 25, 1999
600
Hunter 23.5 Indian Lake
trailering

Picked up my H23 a couple weeks ago and have yet get it on the water (see broken mast foot thread ;) ) While towing it back to my house I noticed that the trailer would start to sway at about 55 mph or so. In reality I didn't feel like I could safely go above 50 mph. One obvious issue I noticed is that the tongue weight was negative (I actually had to push down on the trailer to attach it to the hitch). Now this is a 1990, un-modified trailer in sound condition. Why would it have a negative tongue weight when the boat is completely empty? The pic below was taken right before I got on the highway after buying it. You can see how the back end wants to go down.

Of course it does have a 9.9 hp motor hanging off the back, which alone would solve my problem if moved. But I see sailboats being trailered all the time with the outboards attached, and it would be a pain to have to take the motor off and on every time I trailer. Seems like I am either doing something wrong or the trailer is designed poorly.

Any suggestions on how to increase my tongue weight and how to more safely trailer this boat? Thanks in advance.

I know a lot of people here trailer with their outboards attached and I see it on the highway . We trailered our 23 for 15 years and never left the outboard on the boat on the hi way . I can just see so many things that could go wrong the amount of time it takes to remove the outboard was worth to me .
 
Jun 2, 2004
3,390
Hunter 23.5 Fort Walton Yacht Club, Florida
Moving Stuff Forward

It was clear in my mind when I wrote it but not after I read what I had written.

I was speaking of stuff inside the boat. Tool box, cooler that sort of stuff. If that does not work buy more beer of course that is of little help for the trip home.

After that you will either have to move the boat forward or the axle aft.
 
Jul 12, 2011
1,165
Leopard 40 Jupiter, Florida
Troubling that you've got eye-bolt mounting issues. Considering the weight involved, they are not really very strong -- not as strong as most cleats, for example. One of the issues may be that water on the carpet greatly reduces friction between the boat and the bunks (obviously doesn't affect your rollers). Next time you consider snugging up the winch, you may consider introducing some water to the bunks to ease it along.
 
Jun 19, 2014
33
Hunter 23 Twin Cities
I know a lot of people here trailer with their outboards attached and I see it on the highway . We trailered our 23 for 15 years and never left the outboard on the boat on the hi way . I can just see so many things that could go wrong the amount of time it takes to remove the outboard was worth to me .
You basically confirmed what I already suspected. Just seems like it makes sense to remove the motor when trailering for any distance. Of course being new to this I figured if other people do it, it must be ok. The only issue is where do I put it? I'd rather not put a greasy motor in the cabin or in the back of the SUV. Was thinking about making a box to mount to the trailer under the bow...
 
Jun 19, 2014
33
Hunter 23 Twin Cities
Troubling that you've got eye-bolt mounting issues. Considering the weight involved, they are not really very strong -- not as strong as most cleats, for example. One of the issues may be that water on the carpet greatly reduces friction between the boat and the bunks (obviously doesn't affect your rollers). Next time you consider snugging up the winch, you may consider introducing some water to the bunks to ease it along.
Good idea. I am thinking about fabricating my own bracket for this. Seems that the factory bow eye is a weak point. What I was thinking was a bracket that extends around the bow a bit, instead of the thin washer that is on there now (think a3" diameter piece of round stainless, bended to the contour of the bow, with mating piece on the inside).
 
Nov 26, 2012
2,315
Catalina 250 Bodega Bay CA
No matter what you do to strengthen the bow eye you need to be aware that it is never a good idea to use it to draw up the boat. Thats why there are so many postings about tapping your brakes right after getting her up on flat ground to slide her forward. Just be sure you check your axle bolts before as it can be disaster if you don't! Don't ask me how I know. Chief
 

Kermit

.
Jul 31, 2010
5,657
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
OK, this worked for me. VERY well. Wrap a tow strap around the back of the keel and use a come-along to winch the boat up as far as it will go. I never tapped the brakes because of all the things that would go flying forward inside. Plus the weight of the boat is on the keel which is on the board beneath it. Trust me. The tow strap and winch works!

PS I learned this from this site. Not my original idea. I'll look for the original thread and post it to give the person proper credit.

Here's the link to the thread. http://forums.hunter.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=158886&#post1083113 He suggested tapping the brakes but I never did that.
 
Dec 2, 2003
751
Hunter 260 winnipeg, Manitoba
Kermit. Not sure about the 23 but don't winch on the keel of the 260!!!! Swing keel on the 260 rests on the Center bunk but should not be supporting any of the weight of the boat. Keel trunk, pivot bolt, bearings etc are only designed to support the weight of the swing keel. - a few hundred pounds at most. If you want to winch it forward wrap a strap around the stern or even tying onto the stern cleats would be better than damaging the keel, bracket or keel trunk $$. If your keel is supporting weight you need to raise your bunks.
 
Nov 26, 2012
2,315
Catalina 250 Bodega Bay CA
Sounds good Kermit. I worry about using the brakes after my axle coming loose! Chief
 

Kermit

.
Jul 31, 2010
5,657
AquaCat 12.5 17342 Wateree Lake, SC
Yes, this is for the H23 only. Sorry for the confusion!
 
Nov 26, 2012
2,315
Catalina 250 Bodega Bay CA
Kermit: No reason the strap shouldn't work on my 250 is there? It does weigh about 5k loaded. Chief