trailer weight distribution

Kraken

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Sep 15, 2017
8
Catalina 22 Northwest
hello all - I'm a frequent lurker, infrequent poster. I need some help/ideas on how to set up the bunks, bow roller, etc on my trailer to get the proper 60/40 weight distribution. The boat is a 1988 Catalina 22 Wing Keel. Thanks!
 
Sep 15, 2016
790
Catalina 22 Minnesota
Search the archives here as there is a lot on this subject. Also it will depend on the trailer you have. I have am 87 wing keel on a trailer that was not designed for the boat so my boat sits a bit further forward than most with the keel being just slightly in front of the axel as the trailer is heavy to the rear with the boat on it. Here's a picture to get you started. Its for a swing keel but it at least gives you a starting point. Also check the C22 tech manual. If you don't have one its worth its weight in gold and available from the C22 association. There are dozens of pages devoted to the subject of trailering, weight distribution, adding an axle, etc...
https://www.catalina22.org/
 

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Kraken

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Sep 15, 2017
8
Catalina 22 Northwest
Thanks LakeShark. I have searched for information on this subject, and there is a lot, but little on how to get the right amount of weight on the bunks and bow roller - 40% and the remaining 60% on the keel. I understand the issues with tongue weight and boat placement fore and aft, but how to get the 60/40 ratio has eluded me.
 
Sep 15, 2016
790
Catalina 22 Minnesota
I don't know that it is an exact science more of a trial and error type of thing. Captain Don used to be the expert on this but he has since left this forum. He does though frequent the facebook forum so you may try your question there. My trailer is likely a little heavy to the keel but I have seen no noticeable issues thus far so I assume I am in tolerance. Of Course if you have access to a crain this whole thing is a lot easier but most of us don't have that luxury.
 
May 24, 2004
7,129
CC 30 South Florida
I find that optimum weight distribution is the one attained when the trailers rails are parallel to level ground and the tongue weight comes in at 13%-15% of total weight. At that equilibrium the majority of the weight will be ahead of the center of the axle(s). Question, can the axle(s) be moved or the suspension support points are welded in position? Movable axels backwards or forward will allow maximum flexibility in distributing the load while fixed axles position will limit the positioning of the load. With movables accommodate the boat first in best position and then move the axles for weight distribution. With fixed you have to place the boat for weight distribution regardless of whether it is the best position or not. I would say your boat's load center is around the center of the keel so make sure you set the center of the bunks about one foot ahead of the axle and the bow stop a corresponding distance from there. Check to see if the height of the bunks is adequate for positioning of the wing keel. some use supports and others don't; the weight of the keel is unsupported when the boat is in the water but the weight is distributed along the wet surface of the hull and not just the bunks. Tongue weight can receive minor adjustments by raising or lowering the ball and it will affect the position of the rails to the ground. You may adjust tongue weight but by no means decrease it below 10% as it may induce trailer sway. Don't know what your trailer configuration so its hard to suggest set up but hope this gives some ideas.
 

Kraken

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Sep 15, 2017
8
Catalina 22 Northwest
I think I have the tongue weight determined pretty good. What is challenging to me right now is coming up with a reasonable method for distributing the weight between the keel - 60%, and the bunks/bow roller - 40%. May be a finger to the wind analysis. Thanks for you help.
 

greg_m

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May 23, 2017
692
Catalina Jaguar 22 Simons Town
I think I have the tongue weight determined pretty good. What is challenging to me right now is coming up with a reasonable method for distributing the weight between the keel - 60%, and the bunks/bow roller - 40%. May be a finger to the wind analysis. Thanks for you help.
Thats a very interesting problem indeed! My question is where do these figures (the 60% / 40% weight distribution) come from?

The only solution I can think of is to actually use a type of scale that makes use of the piezzo type pressure pads. Put one under the keel while the boat is resting 100% on the keel and then jack up the bunks till the scale value reads 40% less...
 
Sep 15, 2016
790
Catalina 22 Minnesota
That sure would be nice except finding a portable scale to handle the almost 4000 lb wing keel new design is hard to find. Not to mention making up for the gap once you remove it. If you had a lift with a scale on it you could do it this way but most of the time people just don't have the access to one.

In the end if your not comfortable with the estimations by eye I suppose going to a marina with a travel lift would be the best option as they have scales built into the crane. Then you could adjust accordingly but it may cost you a few hundred for the strap time and you will want to place the slings not under the bunks is possible.
 

w4swk

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Mar 23, 2015
185
1991 Catalina 22 Wing Keel 15202 Nocona
I think I have the tongue weight determined pretty good. What is challenging to me right now is coming up with a reasonable method for distributing the weight between the keel - 60%, and the bunks/bow roller - 40%. May be a finger to the wind analysis. Thanks for you help.
This will be the most "unscientific" post possible. I have a '91 wing keel. What i did was this:
(This was tedious...I have bolsters)
While the boat is on the trailer, back off the bolsters until they become loose enough to turn by hand (pads are just barely touching the hull), then VERY CAREFULLY put the boat in the water. Pull the trailer out of the water and adjust the bolster up about 1/2 - 3/4 inch. Put the trailer back in and load the boat. Pull it back out and observer how it sits on the trailer.

This is how I did mine...nothing exact or precise about it but it sits well on the trailer and tows pretty well. Without some sort of scale rigged under the keel pad, I know of no other way than...TLAR (that looks about right)
Ken
 

Kraken

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Sep 15, 2017
8
Catalina 22 Northwest
Thanks for the replies and ideas. I'm going to give it my best effort and hope for the best. Is the Wing Keel almost #4000? I thought it was closer to #2500.
 

w4swk

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Mar 23, 2015
185
1991 Catalina 22 Wing Keel 15202 Nocona
Thanks for the replies and ideas. I'm going to give it my best effort and hope for the best. Is the Wing Keel almost #4000? I thought it was closer to #2500.
Displacement when first built was 2490 lbs. Wing is probably a little different, but not as much as 4000 lbs.
 
Sep 15, 2016
790
Catalina 22 Minnesota
Thanks for the replies and ideas. I'm going to give it my best effort and hope for the best. Is the Wing Keel almost #4000? I thought it was closer to #2500.
The wing is by far the heaviest of all the New Design models. A fully loaded for cruising wing keel with ice in the ice chest, fuel, and motor will easily cross the 4000 lb weight. Take away the trailer weight and you're still in the mid 3000 lb range I would guess. A year ago I had to go through all this with weights on my rig as the 3500 lb axle on the trailer was too light to handle things. I upgraded to a 6000 lb single axle and the trailer / boat are much happier even on some of the gravel roads I must travel on . See post 40 (last post) below

https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?threads/a-question-of-balance.184405/page-2

As to overall boat weights it is well known that the lightest boats were the early model sing keels which is why they are actually preferred by many of the racers. The New design had a 2 inch taller cabin top, and a shorter mast to still fit the design for class racing. Loads of good information on the history of the C22 can be found at the link below thanks to Rich Fox and the C22 association.

https://www.catalina22.org/index.ph...story+of+Catalina+22%2FCatalina22Book2019.pdf
 

w4swk

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Mar 23, 2015
185
1991 Catalina 22 Wing Keel 15202 Nocona
Not really a true representation of weight if one includes ice chest, fuel, motor, clothing, food, etc. Heck, give me enough time and I can make a swing keel weigh 10,000 lbs! :yikes:But no doubt about it, the wing definitely weighs more than the swing! I agree, the swing has many advantages over the wing! The empty weight of the wing is actually 2546 lbs.

And yes to the trailer...I tow mine with a tandem axle and sometimes I feel it's not enough...but then my wife makes sure that we are WAAAY too comfortable when we go out for a few days!:beer::)


https://www.boat-specs.com/catalina-yachts/catalina-22-mkii-wing-keel
20180817_123902.jpg
 
Sep 15, 2016
790
Catalina 22 Minnesota
Not really a true representation of weight if one includes ice chest, fuel, motor, clothing, food, etc. Heck, give me enough time and I can make a swing keel weigh 10,000 lbs! :yikes:But no doubt about it, the wing definitely weighs more than the swing! I agree, the swing has many advantages over the wing! The empty weight of the wing is actually 2546 lbs.
Even devoid of mast, rigging, all interior cushions etc my boat still weighs in well over the 2546 lbs that are cited. Some years back there was a discussion on boat weights as they can vary hundreds of pounds between boats of various years and the only way to know is to go to a public scale.

Nice looking rig though. I stuck with the single axel because I have to back down some tight ramps and trailer sail 100% of the time. On your rig do you have trouble loading the boat without bunks on various ramps? How long is your extension as your rig looks a bit taller than mine. Always curious how other do it and no matter the weight I love the Wing over the swing any day. No maintenance on the keel, almost as shallow, and more stable in a blow makes the boat just feel better in my opinion.

@w4swk do you race at all? The nationals will be in your neck of the woods next year and you should really consider going. Last time I heard the goal was 50 boats on the start line for the 50th anniversary of the C22. They even have a silver fleet for those like myself that are less hardcore in the racing scene. Should be a good time and Lord willing I hope to make it.
 

w4swk

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Mar 23, 2015
185
1991 Catalina 22 Wing Keel 15202 Nocona
Even devoid of mast, rigging, all interior cushions etc my boat still weighs in well over the 2546 lbs that are cited. Some years back there was a discussion on boat weights as they can vary hundreds of pounds between boats of various years and the only way to know is to go to a public scale.

Nice looking rig though. I stuck with the single axel because I have to back down some tight ramps and trailer sail 100% of the time. On your rig do you have trouble loading the boat without bunks on various ramps? How long is your extension as your rig looks a bit taller than mine. Always curious how other do it and no matter the weight I love the Wing over the swing any day. No maintenance on the keel, almost as shallow, and more stable in a blow makes the boat just feel better in my opinion.

@w4swk do you race at all? The nationals will be in your neck of the woods next year and you should really consider going. Last time I heard the goal was 50 boats on the start line for the 50th anniversary of the C22. They even have a silver fleet for those like myself that are less hardcore in the racing scene. Should be a good time and Lord willing I hope to make it.
Hi Shark
I have a 10 ft. extension but from time to time I can load without using it...depends on lake level!
I never race but it sounds fun to do...we are hoping to trailer out to Florida this fall but I will check the schedule. Thanks for notifying me!
 

greg_m

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May 23, 2017
692
Catalina Jaguar 22 Simons Town
The wing keel would need to have a heavier keel to meet the same "righting moment" force that the swing keel down would have.

Whats interesting for me though is the hull is the same shape and size = I can pack more stuff into my swing keel and float same or higher out the water?
 
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Sep 15, 2016
790
Catalina 22 Minnesota
Yup just one more thing!

It really depends on how much you trailer; I travel close to 1000 mi a year to various lakes so I wanted the extra peace of mind that comes from the larger axle and weight distribution. If you want to know what it weighs go to your local grain elevator and they will weigh it for free (if you live in a rural area that is).