Tongue too light
- Thread starter sailnewbie
- Start date
I have the same boat and probably a similar single axle trailer.
I quit trailering with the motor on the back after the second year -
just too many white knuckle moments on bouncy narrow roads,
low tongue weight makes that rig pretty squirrelly sometimes.
I have taken to laying the outboard in the back of the Jeep tow vehicle
which is a serious pain - but preferable to a highway accident.
My planned fix is to add a foot or so to the trailer tongue and add an outboard mount there
adding a good hundred pounds to tongue weight; and having the motor already upright and at a
good height greatly lowers the effort required to mount and dismount the motor in the parking lot.
I considered a second axle and/or moving the current one back but I feel
a 45 year old cheap trailer may not be worth all that.
I quit trailering with the motor on the back after the second year -
just too many white knuckle moments on bouncy narrow roads,
low tongue weight makes that rig pretty squirrelly sometimes.
I have taken to laying the outboard in the back of the Jeep tow vehicle
which is a serious pain - but preferable to a highway accident.
My planned fix is to add a foot or so to the trailer tongue and add an outboard mount there
adding a good hundred pounds to tongue weight; and having the motor already upright and at a
good height greatly lowers the effort required to mount and dismount the motor in the parking lot.
I considered a second axle and/or moving the current one back but I feel
a 45 year old cheap trailer may not be worth all that.
My plan is to move the axel back, i have a torch,grinder and welder so it shouldnt be to bad to get done, im currently recovering from my second shoulder surgery now and dont know how many more times i wanna pull that motor off, a third doesnt sound good
Adding to the length of the tongue might offset the added weight of the outboard. You could do some math to find out, or to get an idea using a scale to see what the current tongue weight is and then support the tongue a foot back on the scale and see how much it changes. It won't be exactly the same as now and a foot longer but will give you an idea of the effect,
Sumner
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1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/endeavour-main/endeavour-index.html
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas
The weight of a Honda 9.9 by itself should not be causing problems with the tongue weight. I would suspect there are other factors enhancing the problem. In any trailer the load needs to be balanced and this entails that the majority of the weight of the load should be carried ahead of the trailer's axle. The usual culprits are anchors, fuel tanks and other stuff that is being carried in the cockpit or a boat that sits too far back in the trailer. Sometimes moving the stop pedestal forward in the trailer allows the boat to move forward enough to correct balance. The goal, or what we strive to acquire is a tongue weight in the range of 10% to 15% of the total weight of boat + trailer while the rails of the trailer are parallel to the ground in a flat spot. Sometimes raising or lowering the hitch ball will correct small variations in tongue weight without much deviation from parallel. An adjustable coupler can allow to raise or lower the ball a few inches. Lower the ball and the tongue weight will increase, raise it and it will decrease. Only after all attempts to balance the load failed would I consider moving the axle.
If by merely adding a foot of tongue would allow me
to safely leave the outboard mounted on the transom that would be more than awesome.
Other than balanced loading, a practice I already adhere to - this sounds like the simplest fix.
I will check it out after the thaw - thanks for the idea.
Maybe my wording was confusing. If you add to the length of the tongue and leave the outboard on the transom the situation will get worst. The longer the tongue the less tongue weight for the same 'load weight'. The tongue is a long lever.
Adding to the tongue length so you can mount the outboard there will lighten the tongue weight. Adding the outboard will add to the tongue weight but not as much now with the longer tongue.
It would be easier to move the axle and cheaper than to engineer making the tongue longer in my opinion. Cut the axle hangers off. Buy new ones, they are really cheap. Then move the axle back and weld the hangers on. Even if you hired this out it would be less expensive to do than making the tongue longer and reinforcing the joint. Faster also,
Sumner
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1300 miles to The Bahamas and Back in the Mac...
Endeavour 37 Mods...
MacGregor 26-S Mods...
Mac Trips to Utah, Idaho, Wyoming, Canada, Florida, Bahamas [/QUOTE]
What does the front of your trailer look like? Most of the time, place where the bow pulls into the roller is adjustable, both in height as well as for to aft. Typically it is held on by U-bolts. Normally you just unbolt the U-bolts and slide it forward. Since you implied that you can weld, cut it off and weld it in the new location. I'd much rather see you move the boat forward than mess with the axle. As soon as you start messing with the axle, then you introduce alignment issues. Trying to weld upside down under the trailer can be a bit of a pain.
One caution I would add. While one can never have too much tongue weight as far as handling is concerned, most trailer tongues are not designed to support a lot of weight. They are designed for pulling. Too much tongue weight could cause the tongue to buckle on a large bump or hard breaking. Most the time, the trailers are heavy enough, but occasionally they do buckle.
One caution I would add. While one can never have too much tongue weight as far as handling is concerned, most trailer tongues are not designed to support a lot of weight. They are designed for pulling. Too much tongue weight could cause the tongue to buckle on a large bump or hard breaking. Most the time, the trailers are heavy enough, but occasionally they do buckle.
Ive already moved the post a few inches forward which helped but not enough, as far as welding i did it for a living for many years so no big deal there, it is a little more than just cutting the shackles and moving atleast on my trailer because the fenders will need to be cut off and moved as well but i think thats the best and easiest option to get what im after, i just wasnt sure how far til Sumner produced the math, thankyou!
The surge coupler I just put on my trailer was rated for 600 pounds tongue weight.
(another probably worthless .02 since you already have a plan.. ) If you have the trailer that came with the boat, you also have to ask yourself did the manufacture really do such a poor job with the design that its needs a major rebuild (such as moving the axle) or is there something else causing the problem. Does everyone with that trailer have to move the axle? I ask as Ive seen folks with the same trailer I have think they need to move the axle and Im always wondering why when my trailer works just fine as it was designed (I trailer with a 9.8 hp four stroke on the back but that is about the only heavy thing back there).. You already mentioned that you are getting the boat all the way forward on the trailer (usually the number 1 problem) but maybe also the boat is just stern heavy which not only affects the trailer tongue weight but even to some extent how well the boats sails. Racing guys will even remove the outboard off the stern when sailing to lighten it up. Boat batteries and general heavy stuff that stays on the boat when trailered way up forward is good for both sailing and trailering etc.. Spare tire for the trailer mounted way forward.. etc.. Outboard under 10 hp..(I would think your 9.9 should be OK back there if the rest of the boat is balanced especially if its a 2 stroke..)
(another probably worthless .02 since you already have a plan.. ) If you have the trailer that came with the boat, you also have to ask yourself did the manufacture really do such a poor job with the design that its needs a major rebuild (such as moving the axle) or is there something else causing the problem. Does everyone with that trailer have to move the axle? I ask as Ive seen folks with the same trailer I have think they need to move the axle and Im always wondering why when my trailer works just fine as it was designed (I trailer with a 9.8 hp four stroke on the back but that is about the only heavy thing back there).. You already mentioned that you are getting the boat all the way forward on the trailer (usually the number 1 problem) but maybe also the boat is just stern heavy which not only affects the trailer tongue weight but even to some extent how well the boats sails. Racing guys will even remove the outboard off the stern when sailing to lighten it up. Boat batteries and general heavy stuff that stays on the boat when trailered way up forward is good for both sailing and trailering etc.. Spare tire for the trailer mounted way forward.. etc.. Outboard under 10 hp..(I would think your 9.9 should be OK back there if the rest of the boat is balanced especially if its a 2 stroke..)
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I believe it to be original trailer and it pulled fine until i started leaving outboard on. The only weight in the rear is the fuel tank and motor both while sailing and trailering, batteries and so on are mid-ship or forward. If my shoulders wasnt so bad i just pull motor everytime and problem solved but thats not a option. So its down to move axel, deal with trailer as is or stop sailing. im going with option #1 as #3 is out of this world crazy! 
I had an O'Day 23 that I bought a trailer for that had been used for a Hunter. Instead of moving the axle, I moved the winch arm forward a few inches and that solved my control issue. (I also added a spare tire/axle near the tongue.) Also, make sure the engine mount is upto carrying the outboard over the road, it is a lot more stressful for it than in the water. Could you perhaps rig a line to your boom to rise/lower the OB, sort of like a MOB rig?
The boats stern is beefed up already, the mount looks good and solid. Ive put about a thousand miles on it so far with no issues other than having a few scary moments on the road, i just wanna reach out further to some nicer lakes and dont wanna push my luck any further.
I have shoulder problems also, so making the tongue weight heavier could also cause problems getting the trailer onto the hitch. Have you considered a counter weight option instead, that might be removable? Spare tire for trailer, or tool box at front of trailer could help. Getting the axles back would change the entire geometry of the trailer design, potentially leading to bowing of the frame. Most grinder masts are also movable. The engine weight of 120 pounds at the rear, needing an offset weight of only 30 pounds or so, might be better all the way around? Good luck!
I wouldn't have thought a 9.9 could make that much difference in the tongue weight... I have my doubts that's the only influence on it being to lite for comfort.
Also, you can make that trailer handle even worse by moving the axle back. Trailers are a balance game of length, height and weight to make them controlable while under tow. You can very easily make it very hard to handle under avoidance maneuver. The length between the ball and the axle(s) plays just as much a part in how it controls as does tongue weight.
Where you have everything stored in the boat is as big a deal as what... Simply put, you have too much stuff in the back of the boat and not enough towards the front. If you move the axle and then move stuff around or change the boat in any way, you will have a different problem ... you will be tongue heavy, and that's just as bad as what you have going on now.
P.S. That motor hanging off the transom while it bounces there while traveling way to fast down the interstate will eventually rip it apart... that I can guarantee you. It was NEVER meant to be there when traveling down the highway. You know that's true because your boats tongue weight is too lite...
Also, you can make that trailer handle even worse by moving the axle back. Trailers are a balance game of length, height and weight to make them controlable while under tow. You can very easily make it very hard to handle under avoidance maneuver. The length between the ball and the axle(s) plays just as much a part in how it controls as does tongue weight.
Where you have everything stored in the boat is as big a deal as what... Simply put, you have too much stuff in the back of the boat and not enough towards the front. If you move the axle and then move stuff around or change the boat in any way, you will have a different problem ... you will be tongue heavy, and that's just as bad as what you have going on now.
P.S. That motor hanging off the transom while it bounces there while traveling way to fast down the interstate will eventually rip it apart... that I can guarantee you. It was NEVER meant to be there when traveling down the highway. You know that's true because your boats tongue weight is too lite...
light tongue weight is a well-known issue with Mac trailers. Here is how to figure it out:
put a small pointy jack (like hydraulic car jacks) under the frame in the area you propose to move the axle to.
jack them up until the wheels are off the ground. Now put a bathroom scale under the tongue. In my case I used a 5 gallon bucket on the scales. Ours came to near zero with the original axle position. I moved it back about 16 inches and it towed like a dream on our old Mac 26D with the Honda 9.9 mounted.
Also we never had any problem with the boat. The transom held up just fine on the road. There are many Mac owners who have done this trailer mod. I set our weight to about 250 lbs.
Ken
put a small pointy jack (like hydraulic car jacks) under the frame in the area you propose to move the axle to.
jack them up until the wheels are off the ground. Now put a bathroom scale under the tongue. In my case I used a 5 gallon bucket on the scales. Ours came to near zero with the original axle position. I moved it back about 16 inches and it towed like a dream on our old Mac 26D with the Honda 9.9 mounted.
Also we never had any problem with the boat. The transom held up just fine on the road. There are many Mac owners who have done this trailer mod. I set our weight to about 250 lbs.
Ken
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hey ya'll, the outboard weight does make that much difference on the iron swing keel macs and ventures. keel is over the axle. kinda centered. so don't take much to upset this "seesaw"
Currently with motor on my tongue weight is maybe #60 so its going to take some weight to get it to heavy, as far as leaving it on being bad im not sure about that, the factory rated it for a 9.9. Only xtra weight in rear is the motor and fuel tank everything else is mid-ship or forward, batteries even wth front of keel.
I have a different transom but always leave my 9.8 outboard on. I have seen other threads about adding some additional support if you have a traditional motor mount.
FYI, I like the method Ken used for finding how far back to move the axle. If you are skilled at welding so that your axle doesnt fall off while going down road and "find" the driver behind you, that has been done many times and everyone always says it fix's the issue. 60 pounds is down right dangerous...
FYI, I like the method Ken used for finding how far back to move the axle. If you are skilled at welding so that your axle doesnt fall off while going down road and "find" the driver behind you, that has been done many times and everyone always says it fix's the issue. 60 pounds is down right dangerous...