Toe rail varnish.... and caulk

[NYSail]

Hello all... So wife is getting ready to sand and varnish toe rails.... 84 feet of love!! Also we will be removing all caulk on both sides (sits and screwed down onto deck). So I was assuming sand and strip caulk, then varnish with caulk last step or do you sand re-caulk then varnish???? Both have techniques have there own quirks.... Maybe this is like the "whats the best anchor" question.... just want to hear what others do.

Thanks

Greg

 

[dlochner]

Oh Boy! Varnish Wars!!!

(Edit: I got so excited about a varnish war, I hit the post button prematurely. )

If you are not going to remove the toe rail and completely recall all 84 feet, I'd leave he caulk alone. The new caulk will probably not get underneath the toe rail and probably won't adhere well to the old caulk.

Traditional varnish and polyurethanes, etc. often don't work well on toe rails that are frequently under water and abused by dock lines, fenders and other devices of varnish destruction. Varnish does not breathe and once the underlying wood gets wet the varnish starts to lift and peel. Then it is time to start over.

Over the years I've had decent results with Cetol Natural Teak and Cetol Gloss. Cetol is porous and allows vapor to escape with the finish intact. The Natural Teak color is decent, not at all like that Orange crap of days gone by. The gloss protects the finish and builds up the finish without obscuring the wood. It is also quick and easy to reapply each year. A light sanding and then another quick coat.

 

[Charlie Jones s/v Tehani]

I've been doing my toe rails with Flood CWF. Stands for Clear wood finish. Wipe it on every so often and forget it.

 

[shemandr]

If the toenail isn't leaking I wouldn't re-bed it. That adds a lot of complexity to the project. I agree that squirting caulk under it probably won't be effective. But if you are going to do it, I would do it after re-varnishing. That way you can tape off the deck in a nice clean line. Then caulk. Caulk adhesion to varnish? Uhmmm. But varnish on caulk looks nasty.

 

[NYSail]

Not re-bedding the toe rail. The caulk is a boarder on both sides to keep water from getting under. Thought I had a picture but don't..... And yes... varnish over caulk looks bad. Thanks!!

 

[Gunni]

This a big job, and if you do it with varnish you will be doing it again next year. Option would be to use Cetol. Cetol base is flexible and breathable, cetol gloss is not breathable and will peel off, taking the base with it. Don’t think re-caulking will be worth the effort.

 

[TomY]

Not re-bedding the toe rail. The caulk is a boarder on both sides to keep water from getting under. Thought I had a picture but don't..... And yes... varnish over caulk looks bad. Thanks!!

Not necessarily. If you use a caulking in a mahogany color, and tape both the toe rail and the deck so as to leave a minimum filet of caulking. I'd probably use Boatlife Mahogany polysulfide, but just before the finish coat or two were left to apply, and go over the caulking with the varnish.

Nothing protects better than varnish. If you do it right, you'll need a yearly maintenance coat. If you do that and don't abuse the toe rails, you should get 10 seasons out of your initial build coats.

First: Staging: Have your wife stand with her hands at a comfortable position. Measure to the floor. Deduct that number from the average height to your toe rails. That is the measurement you should provide safe, working staging. She should end up here:

I like a heat gun and both pull and push scrapers to remove the failed varnish. At a comfortable height, the work isn't that bad, I sort of enjoy it. This is the first time I had to restore the varnish finish on my toe rails since owning the boat in 2000.
They had a few wear spots that I leveled with sharp planes (you probably won't need this step).

That step trued them up and restored the crisp edges. You shouldn't have to sand much. I used small blocks and 80 grit paper to further 'flatten' the surface. Flat is your goal, cupping or dishing with mechanical sanders will leave in worse shape than you found them.

The best trick I've found is to roll and tip the varnish on. Use small foam rollers, even cut the rollers if you need. This will apply a thick, even coat of varnish, almost impossible by brush alone.

Without getting into details, varnish is a great way to protect brightwork, like toe rails. These high shapely toe rails
are now 58 years old. It would cost a small fortune to replace them. FYI, I didn't caulk the toe rail to deck joint but I always tape just beyond the wood onto the deck. They seem tight still today, thanks to varnish protection.

 

[kampuniform]

I’m with the others: skip the caulking.

A two part varnish will last for ages.

Polyurethane will last a year.

Wood doesn’t breathe, and a non film building oil will cause more heartache in the long run. (I restore period antiques/cabinet making for a living)

Scrap the old finish off (just the old finish) with a Stanley blade, with the blade perpendicular to the surface. Hopefully, the old finish has perished, and easily comes off in flakes and sheets.

Lightly sand using 220. The higher the grade you work up towards, the more the grain is closed, and the quicker it will be to build a proper and smooth finished surface.

You can choose to fill the grain (for a smooth surface), or you can build the finish, sanding between coats with 800 wet/dry.

Mahogany and Teak are naturally oily, so it is important to chemically prepare the surface before applying a finish. This will help with finish adhesion, and prolong the time until the work needs to be redone. Use methy hydrate or acetone.

Before applying a finish, do a wet test. Wipe your surface with methyl hydrate. This will highlight any missed old finish, or areas that were improperly sanded. It will also show you what the finished product will look like in terms of colour. The methyl will completely evaporate in a few minutes.

When the finish has fully cured, any imperfections can be wet sanded with 1000 or 2000 grit, and then polished with an automotive polishing compound.

You can also buy a padding varnish that speeds up the process, although I’d recommend building up your padding technique elsewhere before heading to your boat.

 

[Barnacle Bill]

Did you say it was teak? Or didn't say? With teak I like Epiphanes which has a varnish formulated for teak. Read the instructions. And, you can apply one coat a day without needing to sand between coats.

 

[NYSail]

Hello all..... thanks for the wonderful advise so far! Yes the wood is teak.......42 feet on both sides. Last season wife removed old varnish and tried Seagold...... worthless stuff. Looked great at first but doesn’t last. When we were up in mystic last September my wife got to talking with a woman that was doing the varnishing on one of the old ships there. She said they also had tried the seagold in part because of the ease of use and “reported” durability, however abandon the use once they saw how it was weathering. They now went back to a tried and true product, Decks Owatrol.....!what they have been using for years. So this year wife will try it (prior to this she used epiphanes on our old boat). Most of the Seagold product is off.... nothing a light sanding won’t handle.
In regards to the caulk it is a necessary thing on these toe rails as it keeps the water from going underneath and accessing the hull/deck joint. Just a small bead on the hull/toe rail joint...... I’ll post a picture when I find it. Here is the “new stuff” recommended by Mystic Seaport finishers.



Again thanks!

Greg