'Time and Tide wait for no man', even here on the high (mostly) coast of Maine.

TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,758
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
Twice a month we have a Spring Tide which is slightly higher than our normal. Sea Level Rise on Earth amounts to about an inch every 10 years. Yesterday's spring tide was typical in Rockport Harbor. Weather was benign with an East wind that we are protected from. You can see, we are maxed out for volume 'down' in our harbor.

Fishermen took the day off as waves spilled over their landing. Note the ramp that is going up to the floating docks.
High tide 1.jpg

With just a swell wrapping around from the East, the power of the sea was working our seawall pumping water through holes behind the bulkhead and sending small geysers, drilling through the backfill.

This is the porch off the Boat Club. A typical strong South wind will send 4 foot rollers into here. A gale with 40-50 kt winds can easily send 10'ers.

High tide 2.jpg

We live with the tide along the coast, sort of a big sleeping dog. My house is nearly 200 feet above sea level even though I'm less than 200 yards from here. Below is that same bulkhead top, at near low tide.

LABOAT.jpg

For my sailing, Sea Level Rise will probably result in extra costs to keep a boat as our town raises the public landing, repairs bulkheads, sinks longer pilings.

Recreational boaters will share the cost with the fishermen, boatbuilders and the town in higher taxes and use fees. Still, we are lucky around this harbor living high above on solid granite.

What about your area? Has sea level rise impacted your sailing area?
 
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Aug 28, 2015
190
Oday 28 St Joseph, MI
I would imagine man will continue to cope with the rise and fall of water levels much the same as we did at the beginning and end of the first two ice ages. Nothing we can do about natural cycles. Several years ago I participated in a fossil hunt in an inland area in Florida where the ground was being excavated for a lake. There were layers of fossils of sea animals and land animals stacked one atop the other because Florida throughout the hundreds of thousands of years had been dry land and then covered by the ocean over and over. It’s a natural occurrence and we will just have to live with it.
 
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nat55

.
Feb 11, 2017
210
Gulfstar 1979 Gulfstar 37 BELFAST
I would imagine man will continue to cope with the rise and fall of water levels much the same as we did at the beginning and end of the first two ice ages. Nothing we can do about natural cycles. Several years ago I participated in a fossil hunt in an inland area in Florida where the ground was being excavated for a lake. There were layers of fossils of sea animals and land animals stacked one atop the other because Florida throughout the hundreds of thousands of years had been dry land and then covered by the ocean over and over. It’s a natural occurrence and we will just have to live with it.
Wait a minute here, the most recent ice age ended 11,000 years ago and it began 2.6 million years ago! Mankind wasn't very evident. "Coping" wasn't an issue. Sure natural cycles are going to happen, lets not bury our heads in the sandy beaches of Florida because they aren't going to be anything like they are now when my grandkids want to go on vacation.......
I don't believe everything I read on the internet, however this site puts some useful information out there, read up, look at the graphs.....:yikes:
https://sealevelrise.org/
 

nat55

.
Feb 11, 2017
210
Gulfstar 1979 Gulfstar 37 BELFAST
Tom, in the past spring tide cycles, at least in Belfast, I've noted higher levels than predicated. I can't produce #'s but the visual marks that I use have been underwater. Interestingly the "official" spring tide of the past cycle was during the full moon of Friday-Sat-Sun with tides @ 12', 12.3', 12.4' yesterdays high tide was supposed to be 2' less than that.....these impacts will increase moving forward.......infrastructure improvements will certainly cost the city of Belfast $$$. Thanks for the pics. Happy holidays.....
 
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Oct 26, 2008
6,043
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
I don't believe everything I read on the internet, however this site puts some useful information out there, read up, look at the graphs.....:yikes:
https://sealevelrise.org/
This site seems to be a bit confusing. I followed their link to New Jersey. They write:
  • The sea level rise in New Jersey (measured at a site in Atlantic City) has been 12" since 1950.
  • "This increase is due mostly to sinking land."
  • "Even though the seal level has only risen by about 3 and a half inches, tidal flooding has increased by 340% in New Jersey since 2000."
  • A graph shows "Last 26 years (from 2016) … 6 inches of Sea Level Rise"
I can't quite make out what they are saying … is sea level rising a problem or is it a problem that the land is sinking? They seem to be conflating the 2 issues. I'm guessing that this is leading to a global warming argument, but I'm not sure. The web site wants to raise awareness, but the call for action seems to be to take measures and budget money to protect land and infrastructure from inevitable sea level rise. This would make sense. If the issue of sinking land and rising water combines to cause land development losses, then money certainly has to be spent to protect our infrastructure. The alternative is to simply give it all up to nature and let nature take her course. I can't say that that bothers me either.

If it is about global warming, are we now saying that sinking land is also a crisis caused by our carbon footprint? What about heavy development along the coastline. Wouldn't that be a factor that affects the sinking land? I've always wondered what specific sacrifices the global warming hand-wringers would be willing to accept for themselves.
 
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capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
4,766
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
There are quite a few places in the area we sail of the Caribbean that the rising water has impacted severely. In just 5 years one dinghy dock in Trinidad is now below the water's surface more than 50% of the time.
Other places, beaches that were there since I first arrived in the Caribbean (in 1978) have completely disappeared over the last 7 years, and it has nothing to do with hurricanes or storms. Many concrete docks are now awash at high tide almost daily, that were only so once or twice a year, some years back.
Either the islands are sinking at an alarming rate or the water here is rising much faster than the scientists have recorded elsewhere.
 
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Oct 26, 2008
6,043
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Why doesn't someone dig a trench from Pacific to death valley and fill with water. To reduce sea level. There are several deserts below sea level to run water off to
Cool idea! But it doesn't seem like we hear so many issues about sea level on the Pacific Coast. It seems that the mountainous terrain that lines the coast would be much less affected. The Atlantic coast on our shores are basically sand dunes until you get up to Rhode Island. Shouldn't one expect that sand dunes are going change relatively rapidly?

That said, I have a hard time getting excited about all of our petty grievances about sea level. The Earth has never been static and neither have any of the land masses. I basically think that we should stop wringing our hands over the changes and just adapt. We just don't get to expect that nothing should ever change. If you just accept changes, then what is there to really worry about?
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,321
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Cool idea! But it doesn't seem like we hear so many issues about sea level on the Pacific Coast. It seems that the mountainous terrain that lines the coast would be much less affected. The Atlantic coast on our shores are basically sand dunes until you get up to Rhode Island. Shouldn't one expect that sand dunes are going change relatively rapidly?

That said, I have a hard time getting excited about all of our petty grievances about sea level. The Earth has never been static and neither have any of the land masses. I basically think that we should stop wringing our hands over the changes and just adapt. We just don't get to expect that nothing should ever change. If you just accept changes, then what is there to really worry about?
Go talk to the people in Micronesia. They live on atolls that often less than 20 ft above sea level.

And while the Big Island of Hawaii added some ground, at the other end of the chain an island was lost. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...iped-it-out-overnight/?utm_term=.b66d7b261c9f
 
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Oct 26, 2008
6,043
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
Go talk to the people in Micronesia. They live on atolls that often less than 20 ft above sea level.

And while the Big Island of Hawaii added some ground, at the other end of the chain an island was lost. https://www.washingtonpost.com/nati...iped-it-out-overnight/?utm_term=.b66d7b261c9f
I realize that we are all supposed to have great big old hearts that should break for every hardship and injustice throughout the world. But … these are what I call petty grievances. An unoccupied sand bar disappears in the middle of the Pacific? Please … Of course relocation from Micronesia would be a real hardship for some unfortunate people, but in the scheme of the universe, is it really? We have these things called boats and airplanes that can safely transport people to another life. They won't necessarily be wiped out by disease and they won't be lost at sea as they might have been in ancient times. Improved lives are possible via relocation … all of our ancestors have been through it. It's nothing new and they aren't so fragile that they can't do it as well, if necessary. We can shed a tear for the islands, but we are far less than a speck in the universe and we are all vulnerable to cataclysmic change. Live with it and deal with it, I say.

Besides, I was talking about the Pacific coastline in the US in reference to the Death Valley scenario.
 
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TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,758
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
I was careful not to mention any predictions or climate change. Sea level rise is settled and well documented, and not reversing.

I'm interested if your harbors or sailing areas have had to make adjustments for rising sea level.

Unless your infrastructure was set recently or to allow for sea level rise, marina's, docks, landings like ours that are man made, may need changes.
 

TomY

Alden Forum Moderator
Jun 22, 2004
2,758
Alden 38' Challenger yawl Rockport Harbor
Tom, in the past spring tide cycles, at least in Belfast, I've noted higher levels than predicated. I can't produce #'s but the visual marks that I use have been underwater. Interestingly the "official" spring tide of the past cycle was during the full moon of Friday-Sat-Sun with tides @ 12', 12.3', 12.4' yesterdays high tide was supposed to be 2' less than that.....these impacts will increase moving forward.......infrastructure improvements will certainly cost the city of Belfast $$$. Thanks for the pics. Happy holidays.....
Thanks for that info, Nat. There was not much of a warning posted about the HW. I had no idea that the photos posted were NOT an official spring tide. I see in my minds eye, Belfast is like Rockport, only more so. You have a lot of infrastructure just above the HW line.

It's the wind and sea state that I can imagine (from knowing what we get), on top of the HW, that is disturbing. Eventually, all the factors align.
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,043
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
I'm interested if your harbors or sailing areas have had to make adjustments for rising sea level.

Unless your infrastructure was set recently or to allow for sea level rise, marina's, docks, landings like ours that are man made, may need changes.
Has it changed at our marina? It doesn't seem like it to me. Our tides only rise and fall about 1/2'. The need for dredging and blow-out tides seem to be the most common nuisance in our parts. If the water has been rising, you wouldn't know it from the height of the docks or the depth of our shallow areas.
 
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capta

.
Jun 4, 2009
4,766
Pearson 530 Admiralty Bay, Bequia SVG
I realize that we are all supposed to have great big old hearts that should break for every hardship and injustice throughout the world. But … these are what I call petty grievances. An unoccupied sand bar disappears in the middle of the Pacific? Please … Of course relocation from Micronesia would be a real hardship for some unfortunate people, but in the scheme of the universe, is it really? We have these things called boats and airplanes that can safely transport people to another life. They won't necessarily be wiped out by disease and they won't be lost at sea as they might have been in ancient times. Improved lives are possible via relocation … all of our ancestors have been through it. It's nothing new and they aren't so fragile that they can't do it as well, if necessary. We can shed a tear for the islands, but we are far less than a speck in the universe and we are all vulnerable to cataclysmic change. Live with it and deal with it, I say.
Besides, I was talking about the Pacific coastline in the US in reference to the Death Valley scenario.
I think that is a very common and cavalier attitude amongst Americans until it happens to them. Soon though, the rising waters are going to force many Floridians to relocate and when that mega-tidal wave sends a 300 meter wall of water at the east coast (not if, but when) then I suppose the rest of the world will think as you do, that America's wealthy (by world standards) east coast population can easily afford to relocate and that they are just a speck in the universe, and it's OK for you and yours to lose everything you have. Surely, a 300 meter wall of water would affect you, in eastern Jersey?
We are all shepherds for this planet and we must all do whatever we can to mitigate our part in climate change, however small it may be.
 
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Nov 6, 2006
9,884
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Lake Pontchartrain tides are 6 inches, roughly.. A good east wind will blow the water up 2-3 feet .. and a hurricane can do up 6-8 feet.. Our infrastructure can handle most of that except for the hurricanes.. fortunately they don't hit with regularity.. since I've been hanging around the Pontchartrain sailing (40 years this year) , there has been no noticeable change in our basic water levels.. There is some land subsidence on the central and west coasts of Louisiana but that is mostly because of pumping water on an industrial scale from the aquifers.. Our brilliant folks at EPA, years ago, in the early/mid '70's forced industries to go to well water for many things where we used river water .. resulting in land subsidence.. In a case I have personal knowledge of, the requirement was that if we used Mississippi River water in heat exchangers, it had to be cleaner when we put it back into the river than it was when we pumped it out.. Much cheaper (in money and not environmental damage) to simply switch to well water..
 
Jul 29, 2017
169
Catalina 380 Los Angeles
The only thing I would say has affected the area where I sail is that at low tide that gangway seems awfully steep...but then again I am getting older.:thumbup:
 
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Feb 14, 2014
7,399
Hunter 430 Waveland, MS
The real answer is all of the above.

The land references are sinking.

If you want to know what really affects the ocean levels...

Look to the ICE accumulation of the two poles.

They are both increasing ICE for the last 3 years, including Greenland.
We have fixed Satellites measuring both poles ice, for many years now.

The current forecast is to increase ICE at the poles for the next 6 yrs at least.
Jim...
 
Oct 26, 2008
6,043
Catalina 320 Barnegat, NJ
I think that is a very common and cavalier attitude amongst Americans until it happens to them.

We are all shepherds for this planet and we must all do whatever we can to mitigate our part in climate change, however small it may be.
I know my attitude sounds cavalier, but I would not feel honest if I exhibited a bleeding-heart façade that I simply don't have. I accept that others are more sensitive than I am and I fully realize that some hardship or calamitous event could happen to me, that would cause me to beg for charity.
I don't believe that we are all shepherds for this planet. We're here for whatever reason and we make the best of it. The planet can shake us off like a tick or a bad cold, as George Carlin so famously joked about. There will be no sympathy for anybody when and if something calamitous happens during our lifetime. I don't believe in deliberately making Earth un-livable and I certainly don't have any objection to environmental consciousness and improvements. But I do object to a false and misleading narrative. I believe what I see, I try to have an open mind, and I'll wait for the hand-wringers to show me how and what they will sacrifice for their causes.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,321
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
I realize that we are all supposed to have great big old hearts that should break for every hardship and injustice throughout the world. But … these are what I call petty grievances. An unoccupied sand bar disappears in the middle of the Pacific? Please … Of course relocation from Micronesia would be a real hardship for some unfortunate people, but in the scheme of the universe, is it really? We have these things called boats and airplanes that can safely transport people to another life. They won't necessarily be wiped out by disease and they won't be lost at sea as they might have been in ancient times. Improved lives are possible via relocation … all of our ancestors have been through it. It's nothing new and they aren't so fragile that they can't do it as well, if necessary. We can shed a tear for the islands, but we are far less than a speck in the universe and we are all vulnerable to cataclysmic change. Live with it and deal with it, I say.

Besides, I was talking about the Pacific coastline in the US in reference to the Death Valley scenario.
Without getting into a political debate, how we as a nation respond to other nations and how we as a nation conduct our business at home and abroad, speaks to the character and values we collectively hold.

For any issue there will be a range of attitudes from guilt ridden bleeding heart to the sucks to be you, too bad so sad. Whether we want to acknowledge it or not, our collective actions in any arena have an effect on others and how they respond to us as individuals and as a nation.

Pogo_-_Earth_Day_1971_poster.jpg
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,989
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Ok... I'll make friends and create enemies, but here goes...
I recognize the local impact that @TomY is observing. It is not a new issue, but one that has been going on for centuries. Why did the Native tribes visit the coast line yet build their villages up on the rocks (200 ft above sea level is Tom's home) because they adapted to the seasons and cycles of the earth as they knew it. Did they make mistakes and get wiped out be a high tide... Most likely. But they passed down the knowledge and chose to not repeat the problem.
So as @Scott T-Bird suggests we need to be adaptive.
"What about all the folk who live near the sea and are being affected by the rising sea levels?" They are the ones that chose poorly. They chose not to pay attention to the nature of the earth. They chose to spend money for the view or to be close to the sea for food, or to benefit from the low cost of coastal flood plain construction rather than build on higher ground.
What about the infrastructure we rely upon?.. Well it will need to be moved or be eventually lost to the sea. Who pays for it? The folk who want to continue to live in the area. These are the same folk that elect representatives to hire (i.e. civil engineers for public works department) folks and set rules as to where and what to build. If your representatives have chosen poorly then that is on you. Many of the events of building infrastructure in vulnerable locations is the result of engineers saying "Sure we can do that" with out the question "Should we do that". I live 400 feet above sea level and 50 feet above flood level. A recent series of floods due to poor local planning caused me to engage the Public Works engineers and point out some of the causes that have caused a 5 foot increase in the flood levels. It was not easy. Took me over 10 years of meetings. But finally I am starting to see the fruit of these labors. The city has changed the building code. We now have a hydrology model of the water basin and requirements for impact study before building new structures in the basin so the hill folk will not drown out the valley people.

The 2017 Climate Change report whines about :
The impacts of climate change are already being felt in communities across the country. More frequent and intense extreme weather and climate-related events, as well as changes in average climate conditions, are expected to continue to damage infrastructure, ecosystems, and social systems that provide essential benefits to communities. Future climate change is expected to further disrupt many areas of life, exacerbating existing challenges to prosperity posed by aging and deteriorating infrastructure, stressed ecosystems, and economic inequality. Impacts within and across regions will not be distributed equally. People who are already vulnerable, including lower-income and other marginalized communities, have lower capacity to prepare for and cope with extreme weather and climate-related events and are expected to experience greater impacts. Prioritizing adaptation actions for the most vulnerable populations would contribute to a more equitable future within and across communities. Global action to significantly cut greenhouse gas emissions can substantially reduce climate-related risks and increase opportunities for these populations in the longer term.​
This is all feel good crap in my opinion. To imagine that we are going to hold back the changes of our earth to accommodate the investments made low lying coastal areas of vulnerable populations is unimaginable. Look at the studies used to arrive at these assessments and you find they were limited to observations of the Troposphere. This is an insulating layer of nearest the earth. Read their papers and they say they see this layer of earth rising in temperature. On the other hand look at the atmospheric layer furthest from the earth the Thermosphere and you see the opposite effect the layer is actually cooling. Why? The Sun. That glowing yellow ball in the sky is putting out less radiation and the cold of space is having its affect on the Thermosphere.
How does all this relate to us and the water levels. Well it means change is happening. The things we feel have given us permanence are not going to continue. Having fewer cars spewing CO is nice but not global changing. One volcano eruption wipes out in 15 minutes all the savings made with the cars. Should we continue with the car limitations. Why not. Makes us feel we are doing something. But... It is not a solution. Our hope for solution is to adapt. To stop locating a condo on the sandy beach of Miami or NJ coast in expectations that it will be there in 100 years.
But what do I know I am just an out of work Milk Man....
Rant over....
https://nca2018.globalchange.gov/
https://science2017.globalchange.gov/chapter/appendix-a/
https://spaceweatherarchive.com/2018/09/27/the-chill-of-solar-minimum/

I want to go sailing.
 
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