The order of things...

[PAC3142]

In another topic on fairlead position, one poster said that adjustable jib cars was the best thing he'd added to his boat. Yet that is way down my list, even as somebody who likes to think he is a performance sailor (caveat: within the limitations of boats his wife also likes).

That made me curious about what order other "performance cruisers" would add sailing performance equipment to their boat.

So, could I pose a problem?

Say you'd recently bought a used plain white sloop, such as, ..... hmmm, let me think,..... an early 90s Hunter 37.5. Say it came with an ok main and 130, working autopilot, and not much more. What would you add for cruising sailing performance, and in what order?

By coincidence, I recently bought a 37.5, and this is my planned equipment in the initially planned order:
1. Back stay adjuster. Depowering is important, and split backs make this affordable.
2. Snatch Blocks. Take the jib sheet to the toenail when cracking off.
3. Asymmetrical spinnaker.
4. Folding/feathering prop.
5. Move main traveler back to the helm, à la J boat. Moving the traveler back would let me easily and quickly trim the main in gusty upwind conditions. I actually have approval for this one, but only after we get a dodger and bimini, both of which are absent from this list because they have nothing to do with sailing performance.

What would your equipment and order be?

 

[rgranger]

I have a list...
1. Get a new main (placed the order this past Tuesday .. should get it by April 1st
2. Add a traveler for the main. The parts are in my shopping cart
3. Add pump out deck plate for the port-a-potty
4. Add cars for the genoa

 

[Stu Jackson]

Hard question inasmuch as we have no idea what you have now.

 

[PAC3142]

Hard question inasmuch as we have no idea what you have now.

Stu,
I'm not looking for advice. I'm curious about philosophy. Here's the question:

You've just bought a medium sized sloop with serviceable main and jib, the standard sail controls, and a fixed prop. You're not rich enough to immediately buy everything you want for the boat. What SAILING PERFORMANCE ENHANCING equipment would you plan on buying, and in what order?

 

[cb32863]

New sails. Adding all the other tweaks probably won't help you much if your sails are on the decline.

 

[barnstormer]

Stu,
I'm not looking for advice. I'm curious about philosophy. Here's the question:

You've just bought a medium sized sloop with serviceable main and jib, the standard sail controls, and a fixed prop. You're not rich enough to immediately buy everything you want for the boat. What SAILING PERFORMANCE ENHANCING equipment would you plan on buying, and in what order?

1.New sails 2.folding or feathering prop3.adjustable jib cars
By the way, I have only been able to accomplish 1. but everyone should get to enjoy new sails at least once!

 

[LeslieTroyer]

With me being an engineer I would want to be able to quantify any "performance" gadget. You would need a good baseline so for me the top priority would be wind & water speed instruments as well as gps based speed. And a good log book to record observations at different points of sail, wind and water conditions....

Have a standard course you can run and test how you did after spending hard cash.

 

[Justin_NSA]

Stu,
You've just bought a medium sized sloop with serviceable main and jib, the standard sail controls, and a fixed prop. You're not rich enough to immediately buy everything you want for the boat. What SAILING PERFORMANCE ENHANCING equipment would you plan on buying, and in what order?

Given the scenario (you're not rich, which applies to many of us), it's possible your next big investment might be bottom paint. Something smooth like VC17. Then maybe a spinnaker. I have a folding prop. I'm sure it helps but it was on her when we got her so I have no reference. Rigid vang maybe? I'm not the one to give advice really. I don't race. Like auto racing, the "track" is where you really learn what works and doesn't. Maybe crew with others and check out their setup? The would be cheap.

 

[rgranger]

Hard question inasmuch as we have no idea what you have now.

He asked what your order would be....

 

[jssailem]

an early 90s Hunter 37.5. Say it came with an ok main and 130, working autopilot, and not much more

The minimal status of 17 year old boat and the intent to make it a performance cruiser:

1. First on my list would to refit the Mast and rigging. Performance boats have their rigging replaced ever 8-10 years. This is likely over due.
2. During the refit I would look at how the rigging is layed out and alter as needed to make handling easy, efficient, and performance yielding. This may mean adding or moving blocks, tackle, light weight lines etc. (i.e. Spinnaker rigging if not already in place.)
3. With mast and boom on the hard would be the time to add any mast head electronics and main sail handling fittings/lines (fixed vang, Cunningham, reefing systems etc..) desired.
4. With mast down, add what ever will be needed on the boat to handle the intended new sails. This might include bow sprit, hard points, new blocks and tackle (i.e for spinnaker)
5. Now that you can raise and lower your sailing power, you need to examine how it is controlled. Will you have a crew or operating alone. This will cause you to address leads for sheets to the cockpit. Jib sheet blocks, tracks; Spinnaker blocks, pole, attachement points; main sail sheeting, traveler, etc.
6. Once you have the control systems identified you will need to examine the handling of these systems. This means sizes and functionality of winches, cleats, clutches in the cockpit. Are they large enough, in the correct location, do we need more or fewer fittings. Can the helm and crew move efficiently about the cockpit while handling the lines of the various planned sails.
7. Now that the infrastructure is ready you can focus on the things like the sails, and operator gadgets that calls to the eye and pocket book of sailors.

 

[Justin_NSA]

John makes an important point. All enhancements should begin with a solid foundation. The sportier you get, the more you will stress the rigging.

 

[Don Guillette]

In my opinion, there is no set order for the upgrading of sail trim controls. Like everything in life - a person will use what is easy and not use what is hard to deal with. Let's take my C30 for an example where I was looking to improve efficiency and make the controls easier to use. Let's start with the mainsail. The first control I replaced was the curved track traveler. I'm sure the boat designer thought it looked trick but it was poorly & cheaply designed and you need that control to adjust the angle of attack. The Garhauer straight track traveler and the block up grades that go with it solved that problem. Next was the Catalina internal outhaul. Another poor design and no matter how I messed with it I couldn't get it to work and you need that control to adjust draft depth. I switched to an external setup. Next was the soft boom vang, which is the primary control for adjusting twist. The Garhauer rigid vang solved that problem. Plus I had Garhauer install springs that looked like the came of a 1957 Chevy P/U. Next I installed Cunningham's for the main and jib halyards -- they made halyard adjustment much easier. I also installed a back stay adjuster but I never used it because trying to bend the Catalina mast is like trying to bend a telephone pole!! Why did I install it -- Garhauer gave it too me and it looked trick!!

Now for the jib -- the most important sail trim control for the jib is the fairleads because that sail trim control adjusts draft depth, draft position, twist and angle of attack and on a masthead rig, the jib is the engine. Pin type adjusters are a pain to deal with and sometimes the adjustment you need is between the pin holes. The Garhauer adjustable system solved that problem. I was going to install inboard track for better closehauled work but could never figure out how to get around the safety lines.

Lastly, I lead all the sail trim controls to the cockpit. Another point is you can have the best sail trim controls money can by but if your sails are crappy & blown out the controls are of no use.

 

[Jackdaw]

OK so somehow we buy a 20 year old cruzy sloop, and now its time to turbo it.

First make sure what is there is in good order.
Then made sure nothing is missing, backstay, vang, adjustable everything. If you can't control it, its unlikely to be fast.

Sails. BUDGET this in with the cost, so you can get them right away. Almost nobody sells a boat with great sails. Obvouisly need a spinnaker if you are serious about going downwind.

Folding prop
Clean bottom
Low stretch (dyneema) cored halyards and sheets.

At this point you have a chance.
Then I would look at double ending control lines (backstay, vang, foreguy) so they can work form both ends.
Double the purchase on loaded block (jib car adjusters, vang, backstay)

Now your getting tricky.. look for things that make crew work faster, easier.

 

[jssailem]

like trying to bend a telephone pole!! Why did I install it

Don,
As you likely know, the backstay adjustment is not all about bend to the mast. It also servers to tension the rig, increasing/decreasing the compression of the mast onto the boat deck/keel. Tighten the backstay you tension the forestay... you adjust the jib and adjust the angle of point you can sail the boat. Easy the stay and you ease the compression on the boat.

And it can look trick...

 

[Don Guillette]

Don,
As you likely know, the backstay adjustment is not all about bend to the mast. It also servers to tension the rig, increasing/decreasing the compression of the mast onto the boat deck/keel. Tighten the backstay you tension the forestay... you adjust the jib and adjust the angle of point you can sail the boat. Easy the stay and you ease the compression on the boat.

And it can look trick...

BEND is the key word. You can't bend a CATALINA mast or a telephone pole. A BENDY mast primary function is to take the fullness out of the belly of the sail (draft depth) and help with draft position. What happens with a Catalina when you crank on the backstay, in addition to tightening the jib stay, because you've slanted the mast aft the boat thinks you picked up the mast and moved it aft and the result is weather helm. To me, and it was my personal preference while cruising, the backstay adjuster was like fancy hubcaps. It looked nice but I didn't use it to make the Catalina boat more efficient. I made better use of the existing main & jib sail trim controls. Probably there might be some Catalina owners who would disagree with me and feel the backstay adjuster is their control of choice but if Garhauer hadn't given it to me I wouldn't have installed it. It's the last Catalina sail trim control l'd spend my money on. I'd instead maybe invest in a folding prop or I'd buy more beer -- and wine for my wife!! A SLEEP NUMBER BED with also be nice. I think STU J has one on his Catalina!!

 

[jssailem]

I'd instead maybe invest in ......more beer

I am with you there.
Hope my statement did not give the wrong information. Like you I have a street light pole for a mast. There is no way that I could bend it with a back stay. What I do observe is that by adding tension to the back stay I get a bit higher compression on the mast base and the forestay tightens, taking the slack out of the jib when under pressure. When I tie on to the marina dock at night I ease the tension on the rig. Ease it too much and the back stay starts to waggle in a stiff breeze.

 

[Jackdaw]

Even on a masthead boat, adding backstay tension will reduce head stay sag, which is a primary way to depower the headsail.

Actually a fractional mast (where the mast bends) has LESS of this efffect.

 

[Meriachee]

Something Don alluded to but didn't come out and say, the toys the boat has currently may or may not be up to snuff. Case in point, the 4:1 traveler block assembly that came with the 270 was original (read..old) and took two hands and one foot on the bulkhead to adjust under any load at all. For the first two years it didn't get used much. The Garhauer 6:1 upgrade was reasonably cheap, and now the car can be moved even when well loaded and gets used all the time. Upgrades can fall under the maintenance refresh column and have a huge impact.

 

[jssailem]

Interesting. Taking the sag out of the headsail depowers the sail. It it has always seamed too improve the air foil and drive a better air flow through the slot. Let me point higher with out noticeable change in speed. Was this illusionary?

 

[jssailem]

Sailing deeper off the wind I have reduced the tension adding sag and bag to the sail.