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The "Betty L"-- My 1973 C22 Swing Keel

Discussion in 'Catalina 22' started by gdudik, Oct 27, 2017. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. greg_m

    greg_m

    Joined May 23, 2017
    348 posts, 122 likes
    Catalina Jaguar 22
    ZA Simons Town
    I see no cockpit cubby holes either on this boat - like mine does not have.
     


  2. gdudik

    gdudik

    Joined Oct 25, 2017
    28 posts, 25 likes
    Catalina 22
    US Vancouver, WA
    Cockpit cubby holes? I have the storage under the cockpit seats where the art-most part of the seat flips up (lazarette). If you're not talking about that then, yes, I have no other storage.

    I have a question for everyone: I pulled my mast down for winter storage and put it inside. Upon inspection, most of my standing rigging only has one crimp sleeve at each end, not two. With the exception of one forward lower, which I will replace, it all seems in good condition. Is it worthwhile to replace ALL the standing rigging because of this?
     


  3. CloudDiver

    CloudDiver

    Joined Sep 8, 2014
    2,527 posts, 405 likes
    Catalina 22 Swing Keel
    US San Diego
    Those crimp fittings are called nico-press sleeves. There should be two at each end where the eye is, but like you said there is only one... I doubt there is any room to add a second one because the tail has been trimmed off. You can order a complete set of standing rigging from Catalina Direct for about $400. You can also make your own if you either a) have a crimp tool or you can borrow one, or b) you have a local store that allows you to do your own as long as you buy the parts there. My local West Marine has the big crimp tool bolted to a work bench, and its the really nice powerful Loos & Co tool. Sadly, unless there is a sale going on the WM price of wire and fittings is still pretty high compared to other places online. Just to compare, 160 ft of 1/8 316 SS 1x19 wire, 16 1/8" Thimbles in 2 packs, and 32 nico-press sleeves in 4 packs comes out to almost exactly $200 at WM. Not bad, but I bet I could knock that down to $150 with no tax at other online outlets. At least with WM I know I can use their bench and press to put them all together.
    Keep in mind, you really want to measure you rigging yourself. I have a list of the measurements at home from the original Catalina drawing and I noticed that my forward lowers are almost 2 inches shorter than the drawing measurement. If you order them from CD make sure you check everything first. It is worth going with new standing rigging if you can't be sure of the condition of what you have.
     


  4. gdudik

    gdudik

    Joined Oct 25, 2017
    28 posts, 25 likes
    Catalina 22
    US Vancouver, WA
    Correct. There is no room to add a second one.

    The real question I have is--should I bother? I have plenty of things to spend money on. Obviously I have one where a wire is broken and I will replace that with the proper setup and two sleeves. But should I be worried about the standing rigging that appears to be in good condition with no meathooks, missing strands or corrosion, simply because I'm missing the secondary sleeves at connections? As I understand it, the second sleeve is just backup, sort of like how in marine work everything gets two hose clamps.
     


  5. CloudDiver

    CloudDiver

    Joined Sep 8, 2014
    2,527 posts, 405 likes
    Catalina 22 Swing Keel
    US San Diego
    Wire rigging can look clean but it can still be hiding crevice corrosion deep in the strands where you can't see. If it were my boat, and I knew it was more than 15 years old and only sing one sleeve, I would replace it. I mean it really depends on you and what sailing you are doing. If you are on a lake and nothing gets too crazy you'd probably be fine. I used Dyneema on my boat for about $100 to replace everything, but it takes some science to do the splices and get the measurements just right. Also, I had to have specially made spreader tips from Delrin so they wont cut through the fibers. Its almost winter, you have plenty of time to think over your options before you rig again in the spring.
     


  6. gdudik

    gdudik

    Joined Oct 25, 2017
    28 posts, 25 likes
    Catalina 22
    US Vancouver, WA
    HAHAHAHAHAHA.:laugh: In the fall, winter, spring, I manage 400 youth sports officials for the largest local youth sports league. 2000 kids in volleyball, 5000 in basketball, 2000 in track and field, and a couple hundred each in lacrosse, football, and baseball. That's in addition to my regular 40 hr job. With one other guy, I assign, manage, train, and do payroll for these officials.

    ...and our first child is due in May. I have to be pretty deliberate about how I plan things.

    Funny story: We bought the boat in August. Closed the deal on a Tuesday. On that Friday, found out she's pregnant. I went, "yes! Just in time:dancing:" She said, "If I'd have known I was pregnant I never would have let you buy that boat." :dancing::dancing::dancing:
     


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  7. gdudik

    gdudik

    Joined Oct 25, 2017
    28 posts, 25 likes
    Catalina 22
    US Vancouver, WA
    The lettering showed up and is installed. Now she truly is "Betty L." New halyards are here, oversized masthead sheaves are due to arrive today.
     

    Attached Files:



    Leeward Rail likes this.
  8. Ellwebs

    Ellwebs

    Joined Jun 23, 2015
    27 posts, 4 likes
    Catalina 22
    US Vashon
    Good looking boat. I've been told nicropress sleeves are a no no. I've got 'em on my boat and will probably replace them sometime.
     


  9. LakeShark

    LakeShark

    Joined Sep 15, 2016
    316 posts, 98 likes
    Catalina 22
    US Minnesota
    It depends on who you talk to. There are some who make their own rigging and still use the nicropress fittings. All depends on where and how you sail along with how often you inspect rigging. I have them but trailer sail so there checked every outing.
     


  10. gdudik

    gdudik

    Joined Oct 25, 2017
    28 posts, 25 likes
    Catalina 22
    US Vancouver, WA
    Update: Baby was born happy and healthy on April 11. We've already had him on the boat twice!

    Here's the list of things I've gotten accomplished over the winter. I apologize that I have no pictures, but playing with epoxy/fiberglass and operating a camera don't mix well.
    Replaced all 4 lower shrouds. The uppers were new, but the lowers were ancient. Made the rigging myself.
    Added the LED steaming light and deck light combo that CloudDiver posted awhile back. It's kickass.
    Added an LED anchor light from WM, and changed deck plug to 4-pin to support all the lights on the mast.
    Upgraded halyards with oversized sheaves (thanks Stingy.)
    Added a headsail downhaul
    Got a brand new 150% genoa since the boat only had a 100% working jib.
    Added upgraded spreader brackets from CD
    Added a stereo

    Finally the biggest project was when I went to install the stem reinforcement. Got into the little anchor chain locker at the bow of the boat, and removed the screen. Discovered that the stem fitting on this boat was once moved aft to accommodate an anchor roller, and then moved forward again when the anchor roller was removed. Lots of holes that were not sealed properly. In addition, there was a **large** hole cut in the bow for a deck pipe for anchor rode, directly aft of the stem fitting and bow pulpit. So, we find that none of these items have been sealed well, and to make up for the fact that there are so many holes, someone has custom made a piece of 3/4" plywood that fits everything and bolted stem fitting and bow pulpit through it--as a reinforcement, I guess? When I got in there, everything was soaked and dripping wet from Pacific NW fall and early winter rain. Removed the backer board, and found that the bottom layer of fiberglass underneath the deck core was straight-up missing. The deck core itself had about a 12" square section of ruined, rotted wood. Everything gooey, slimy, and dripping with brown water.

    Put a tarp over the boat, left the hatch and the companionway open, and let it dry for a week with a fan inside. I had good core with glass underneath it once we got back to the bulkhead that separates anchor locker from V-berth, but everything forward of that was no better than the outer skin layer of fiberglass.

    Now, let me preface this with: I've never done any fiberglass work at all before this job. Thanks to the magic of the internet (and this forum!), I developed a plan of action. I ended up chiseling out all the rotted wood, and cut a new piece of plywood to fit in the space where the old one should have been. Mixed up some **really** thick epoxy and attached the new piece of plywood to the underside of the deck. Wedged a bottle jack and got creative with pieces of 4x4 to hold the plywood in place while the epoxy cured. After that, we began the tedious process of glassing underneath the new piece of core. I alternated layers of chopped strand mat and woven mat, and tabbed all the way around onto the inside of the hull. After all that set up, I drilled out and potted all the holes that had been made in the bow with epoxy. Then I redrilled the holes for the pulpit and stem fitting, and reattached these items using more plywood backer plates underneath my recored deck and lower layer of glass. Bedded everything with butyl tape. Finally, underneath all of that, I attached the stem reinforcement to the stem fitting and bow eye.

    I owe this forum a great deal of thanks because without all the knowledge contained here I would not have had any clue how to attempt a repair like this. Thanks to MaineSail for excellent tape photography, and instructions. Thanks to countless posters showing how fiberglass really isn't that difficult, and thanks especially to the folks in this thread who got me connected with Don Woodhouse and found me people to race with and a cheap slip in a great location!

    I'm looking forward to a fantastic summer on the water.
     


    Leeward Rail and Gene Neill like this.
  11. Hardhead

    Hardhead

    Joined Apr 11, 2017
    167 posts, 46 likes
    Catalina C22
    US Solomon's Island
    Great work - as Gene aptly pointed out, overhead fiberglass work is a PITA.

    Do you happen to have the product name, or a link, for the 4-pin deck plug & LED lights you bought? I really need to replace mine as well.

    Lookin good - you're all set for the summer now--
     


  12. gdudik

    gdudik

    Joined Oct 25, 2017
    28 posts, 25 likes
    Catalina 22
    US Vancouver, WA
    4 pin plug: https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west...MIkqazkbrg2wIVAcJkCh1YIwsUEAQYASABEgKPKPD_BwE

    LED steaming, deck light combo:
    https://www.defender.com/product.jsp?id=2708612

    Anchor light: https://www.westmarine.com/buy/west...MIzbzOzrrg2wIVkPhkCh16AgV1EAYYAiABEgJgR_D_BwE

    On the anchor light, I removed the plastic base and drilled a hole the right size for one of the existing bolts on the masthead. Then rigged up a little spacer to put inside the tube so when I tightened the bolt down to prevent the light from pivoting, it didn't crush the soft aluminum tube on the light.
     


  13. Hardhead

    Hardhead

    Joined Apr 11, 2017
    167 posts, 46 likes
    Catalina C22
    US Solomon's Island
    Thanks! Saved me a bunch of time..
     


  14. Leeward Rail

    Leeward Rail

    Joined Mar 20, 2015
    1,428 posts, 291 likes
    Catalina 22 New Style
    CA SHYC, Lake Winnipeg
    Now that's a person I'd have loved to meet.

    Not sure how i missed this thread.
    Congrats on the new boat, AND YOUR NEW SON/CREW !
    IMO he's a reason to GET a boat. Boats create & enhance memories.
     


  15. gdudik

    gdudik

    Joined Oct 25, 2017
    28 posts, 25 likes
    Catalina 22
    US Vancouver, WA
    So question for rigging gurus: last winter I redid all 4 lower shrouds because they were undersize and obviously original. However the upper shrouds, as well as the forestay and backstay were obviously new, with new heatshrink and much better looking cable.

    I sailed on these uppers all last summer, blissfully ignorant of any rigging tuning.

    When I took the mast down, I labeled all the parts before I took the standing rigging apart.

    Now that I’ve got the mast back up and the boat in a slip, I’m finding that I can’t get the uppers tight enough before I run out of turnbuckle. The lowers are great and I’ve gotten them to read at 28 on my Loos model A, just like the tech manual from the association says.

    Both uppers are well short of where they are supposed to be tension wise, and in addition the mast has a visible deflection to port above the spreaders. If I pull tension on the starboard spreader with my hand, the mast visibly comes back into column.

    I already have a shin under the mast that’s 1-1/4” thick, so I can’t shim anymore; I’m already technically illegal. There are no signs of the compression post or mast step sagging. I think whoever replaced the uppers just cut them too long.

    Turnbuckle bodies for 1/4”-28 that are shorter than my 4” ones seem not to exist.

    I REALLY don’t want to drop the mast and put all new shrouds in. I already have the boat in her summer slip and dropping it while on the water looks like a pain.

    I have a nicopress handheld swager. Anybody have any luck shortening shrouds from just one end before? I’m thinking I would have to cut the sleeves off the existing shroud without damaging the cable, which I’m reasonably certain I could do.

    How about other solutions?
     


  16. greg_m

    greg_m

    Joined May 23, 2017
    348 posts, 122 likes
    Catalina Jaguar 22
    ZA Simons Town
    Tie a knot in the shroud cable!??!
     


  17. gdudik

    gdudik

    Joined Oct 25, 2017
    28 posts, 25 likes
    Catalina 22
    US Vancouver, WA
    I’ve jury-rigged plenty of stuff, but I don’t think I could stomach that one!
     


    greg_m likes this.
  18. greg_m

    greg_m

    Joined May 23, 2017
    348 posts, 122 likes
    Catalina Jaguar 22
    ZA Simons Town
    Was kidding with you though!

    There is not short cut for safety... especially if lives are at stake. I would however go to a professional rigging shop to have the shrouds shortened. I mean they do hold up the big stick thingy that could fall down and crack someones nut!
     


  19. LakeShark

    LakeShark

    Joined Sep 15, 2016
    316 posts, 98 likes
    Catalina 22
    US Minnesota
    No shortcut here dropping the mast even on the water is not that big of a problem just use the vang as a block and tackle and put your mast stand in place on the stern. Stingy has a great video of this on his site. Then remove the stays, check their measurements, and make changes as needed. I trailer sail and can go from full mast down to rig tuned with sails up on the water in about 1.5 hours so an afternoon should be all the time you need.
     


    greg_m likes this.
  20. gdudik

    gdudik

    Joined Oct 25, 2017
    28 posts, 25 likes
    Catalina 22
    US Vancouver, WA
    So in case anybody was wondering, the solution was to use the small cutoff wheel on a dremel. Cut off the heat shrink, and very gingerly cut nearly all the way through the nicopress sleeves. Cut in line with the sleeves all the way from one end to the other. I didn’t cut all the way through so I didn’t nick the wire rope itself. Used a big screwdriver to pry the two halves of the sleeve apart. Didn’t damage the wire!

    Next I let the turnbuckle all the way out, and pulled all the excess wire I could through the thimble. Attached two new zinc-plated copper nicopress sleeves and crimped with the nicopress tool I borrowed from work. Worked perfectly. Taped it up, got out the Loos gauge, and got it to the appropriate tension. Mast now in column and I can point higher!

    We took my new crew out for another training sail today before it got too hot. He fell asleep on watch, but since he’s a volunteer, rather than having been pressed into service, the captain decided to forgo the usual punishment :biggrin:

    Here’s a picture in an appropriately nautical outfit. A0E24C85-7094-4173-9633-3AA0C5705B92.jpeg
     


    Grotto likes this.

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