Tactical situation at finish line with two different fleets

[danstanford]

This has happened to me twice now and I would like to develop a solid strategy to avoid the crisis. I am in the white sail fleet sailing a 3 legged course coming to the pin end of the finish line on port broad reach so I have to keep the pin to my starboard. I have a boat behind me that I passed in the final leg and who is fairly close behind and on the same track. As I approach the line I have two boats coming downwind in another class (sausage course) headed for the same mark but needing to keep it to port to round it and head back upwind. They are a couple of boat lengths apart and I am likely going to pass just behind the lead boat or arrive concurrently at the mark.

If I alter course to head more for the middle of the line I am going to not only be in the path of the second boat but in the path of the lead boat as they round the mark and head back up wind. The actual circumstance that I ended up with the last time had me arriving in the zone and having to give mark room to the lead boat where I had no choice but to turn downwind not reaching the pin, and doing a 360 to come back to the line. Not only did I lose the position to the boat behind me in my own fleet but my ego took a substantial hit as I watched the scenario unfold and was unable to come up with a plan to solve the situation.

Had there only been one boat I had to deal with I would have turned upwind earlier and followed them to the mark taking their stern as they rounded though this would have not been easy to time either. In this situation, I could not do anything like that without causing the same situation with the second boat. I am pretty sure that if I had turned more upwind and given way to these two boats I would have not been near the mark but I would have lost the position to the boat behind me….safer but ultimately losing a spot.

I can include a sketch if this description is not clear. What would you do?

 

[Jackdaw]

Because you are leaving the mark on opposite sides, rule 18 (mark room) does not apply between boats in the different fleets. It only applies to boats leaving a mark on the same side. That means port/starboard, windward/ leeward and clear head is what matters.

If you are clear head of the boat behind you, you can do whatever you want with respect to him. In this situation you’re probably going to be on port. If the boats coming down are on starboard you owe them rights. If they’re on port (likely) they owe you rights as leeward boat.

 

[Jackdaw]

so the strategy;
Know the rules
Look ahead
TALK the the other boats if need be
Time your finish with boatspeed adjustments

It happens all the time, boats SLOW DOWN on purpose at marks to allow ROW boats to round. You can also do this while keeping a boat clear astern with some fancy luffing and wiggling.

But no doubt, your RC has potentially created a very awkward situation. But I would image as they get closer to the mark, they will be on port for an easier rounding with a kite. Then its a pure Rule 11 (leeward boat) situation where YOU have ROW.

 

[JRacer]

Were I the PRO, I would not have a leeward mark also be a finishing mark. I would instead, drop another mark either upwind or downwind (more likely) of the leeward mark to be the pin end of the finish line. Talk to your RC. As JD said, they are putting the competitors in a bad spot. Alternatively, they could alter the start time of the fleets to separate them by more time if they insist on using the bottom mark as the finish mark. That said, JD is right, it's all about ROW and if you can get on starboard jibe coming into that mark, you should have them all diving for the bushes.

 

[Jackdaw]

Were I the PRO, I would not have a leeward mark also be a finishing mark. I would instead, drop another mark either upwind or downwind (more likely) of the leeward mark to be the pin end of the finish line. Talk to your RC. As JD said, they are putting the competitors in a bad spot. Alternatively, they could alter the start time of the fleets to separate them by more time if they insist on using the bottom mark as the finish mark. That said, JD is right, it's all about ROW and if you can get on starboard jibe coming into that mark, you should have them all diving for the bushes.

For sure. But for many clubs it often comes down to the ability to set and manage marks. Some clubs only use in-place or government marks. Some set as few as possible, often with the starting line doubling as finish. Water depth can factor. So can resources. At WYC with 130 boats out on a Thursday evening, the RC usually sets 11 marks, managed by a RC committee boat and 1 or 2 high-speed mark boats. But that take a lot of resources.

 

[danstanford]

Thanks for your feedback Guys, it is great to have my thinking validated. In at least some part there are folks deciding that their fleet is more important than the lowly white fleet and so we should just get the hell out of the way. I, too, would have loved to let them finish their turn and keep on racing without significantly harming our progress relative to the boat chasing us and that is the root of this question. In this most recent situation the first downwind boat was on port and could have easily gone down our starboard side rather than forcing themselves inside to get a direct line to the mark, but then they would be losing ground to the boat chasing them. In the end, it was completely my fault for mis-judging a tack at the windward mark and having to pinch terribly to get around it. Had I done that one ok I would have been gone through the line before they ever got there.....greedy was I.

 

[Jackdaw]

A bit more on the tactics.

If you have been giving way the the spin boats coming down on port because you though that they had mark room, screeching in next time calling 'leeward boat' will get their attention. For sure. A smart skipper would probably throw his boom over (RRS 10) until you blinked, or if they were good they would drop the kite behind the main then jibe at the mark.

 

[Jackdaw]

Thanks for your feedback Guys, it is great to have my thinking validated. In at least some part there are folks deciding that their fleet is more important than the lowly white fleet and so we should just get the hell out of the way. I, too, would have loved to let them finish their turn and keep on racing without significantly harming our progress relative to the boat chasing us and that is the root of this question. In this most recent situation the first downwind boat was on port and could have easily gone down our starboard side rather than forcing themselves inside to get a direct line to the mark, but then they would be losing ground to the boat chasing them. In the end, it was completely my fault for mis-judging a tack at the windward mark and having to pinch terribly to get around it. Had I done that one ok I would have been gone through the line before they ever got there.....greedy was I.

If you’re both on port YOU are right of way boat. Why/how did they ‘force’ themselves inside? Didn’t you call to them? Or did you think they had mark room?

 

[danstanford]

If you’re both on port YOU are right of way boat. Why/how did they ‘force’ themselves inside? Didn’t you call to them? Or did you think they had mark room?

I thought I needed to give them mark room once they called for it so I bailed to avoid a potential collision. I am pretty sure if the roles were reversed I would have moved to starboard and let us go through which would have made everything ok. I will learn to put some more strategic thought to the issue before it becomes so critical instead of worrying so much about the Guy I was passing.

 

[Jackdaw]

I thought I needed to give them mark room once they called for it so I bailed to avoid a potential collision. I am pretty sure if the roles were reversed I would have moved to starboard and let us go through which would have made everything ok. I will learn to put some more strategic thought to the issue before it becomes so critical instead of worrying so much about the Guy I was passing.

I get that. And RSS#18 is easily the most complicated rule in the book. Its quite possible (and I hope true) that the other boat didn't know that RSS18 is turned off for boats leaving a mark on different sides. If he made that call knowing the correct reading of the rule, it is a RSS#2 (Fair Sailing) violation and a penalty, and is NOT discardable from a series score.

 

[danstanford]

So last night I was mid-pack and when I got to the finish line there was no issue at all with the other fleets. The reason for writing this was to address any criticism of the Committee and to own the previous circumstances as mine due to an extra tack or in one awful case touching the windward mark and having to re-round. Now I have to get a better start so I am not mid-pack, but in my defense we crossed the line 10th and finished 5th!

 

[Jackdaw]

So last night I was mid-pack and when I got to the finish line there was no issue at all with the other fleets. The reason for writing this was to address any criticism of the Committee and to own the previous circumstances as mine due to an extra tack or in one awful case touching the windward mark and having to re-round. Now I have to get a better start so I am not mid-pack, but in my defense we crossed the line 10th and finished 5th!

If you touch a mark, you don’t have to re-round. You do need to do a single spin ( tack+jibe) as soon as practical.