I am brand new to sailing and recently purchased a 1984 Catalina 22. I have not had her off the trailer yet, as I have been trying to figure out the rigging and doing as much ground work as required to be comfortable on the water. Apparently I missed some cracks in the swing keel when I purchased the boat. It appears the damage may be from resting on the trailer’s keel support over an extended period. The trailer and boat were stored Indoors for the past 8 years. I fully intend to have the cracks repaired; however, I am really eager to get her on the water. My question is would it be ok to sail her until the cooler weather and then have the keel repaired later, or do I run the risk of further, catastrophic damage? Your input and advice would be most appreciated.
Swing keel cracks
- Thread starter kdwood
- Start date
Best to post this in the C22 Forum. Many SBO members who have a C22 many not monitor this subforum.
Catalina 22
@Phil Herring possible to move it ?
Catalina 22
@Phil Herring possible to move it ?
Most C22s have cast iron swing keels.
Looks like you got lucky and got one where a previous owner got the updated lead+fibreglass keel ?
If so, the lead obviously won't rust, but fibreglass could get worse.
Depending on what the problem is, it could be simple to partially repair it, thereby preventing additional damage, and worry about smoothing out the repair later.
Looks like you got lucky and got one where a previous owner got the updated lead+fibreglass keel ?
If so, the lead obviously won't rust, but fibreglass could get worse.
Depending on what the problem is, it could be simple to partially repair it, thereby preventing additional damage, and worry about smoothing out the repair later.
Precisely right. Dang, I wonder what caused that??? I WANT one of those keels someday sooner than later, so I certainly hope it took a hell of an impact.
@kdwood, that IS a $2000+, plus shipping, special-order keel. You are extremely lucky to have it. I have no idea if sailing with it broken open that way would hurt it, but I personally would not. I'd fix it - even just just quickly and roughly - before getting it wet. Like Leeward said, you can always fix it "right" at a later time.
Hopefully @EditorC22NSA will chime in. He probably knows more about that keel than anyone here.
@Leeward Rail I am guessing here, but by partial repair you mean make it water tight using empoxy and fiberglass cloth. Then later sand it down or off and make a proper faired repair so that the keel is smooth and water tight.
That being said the repair needs to be good enough that the swing keel can fit into the keel trunk.
@kdwood the keel is is more then an appendage dangling in the water. It is a key design element that makes the boat go forward. Filling it with water will mean you will need to completely drain it or you will escalate the future repair.
You can do a patch to seal the crack but you will want to make the proper repair before too long or the keel may need total replacement or extensive drying. Not the lead part but the fiberglass part.
Welcome to the forum. Let us know what you decide. It is your boat and you get the freedom to decide what you do with it. Is this a great world or what.
That being said the repair needs to be good enough that the swing keel can fit into the keel trunk.
@kdwood the keel is is more then an appendage dangling in the water. It is a key design element that makes the boat go forward. Filling it with water will mean you will need to completely drain it or you will escalate the future repair.
You can do a patch to seal the crack but you will want to make the proper repair before too long or the keel may need total replacement or extensive drying. Not the lead part but the fiberglass part.
Welcome to the forum. Let us know what you decide. It is your boat and you get the freedom to decide what you do with it. Is this a great world or what.
Correct. Assuming it's dry from sitting indoors for 8 years, and the damage isn't too extensive.
I wouldn't sail it as is, that's for sure.
That said, If it was my boat I'd just fix it correctly the first time. Otherwise you just spend more time fixing stuff.
Admittedly, my boat still hasn't made it into the water this year for that reason, but I wasn't willing to sail our boat as it was this spring.
It's issues were minor compared to a cracked keel. hehe
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@kdwood
Being a former Catalina dealer after 1984, all swing keels were cast iron. It looks like it is encapsulated by a fiberglass cover which I have seen in the past. The person who would know is Gerald Douglas at the Florida plant for Catalina. You could call them.
Since the damage is near the leading edge makes me think the keel was hit on something and a good example could be something in the water or on the trailer. I bet on the trailer. Since you did not see this when inspecting this before purchase is the reason why I mentioned the trailer. Could it have been possibly loading up onto the trailer cockeyed or the keel was not full up? Is the trailer keel tray rotten or the boards too far apart? Any protruding parts from trailer? We will never know but food for thought as I did not know the sequence of events.
If it is cast iron with a fiberglass cover the biggest thing is to apply a metal primer that contains zinc chromate to stop any corrosion on the exposed cast iron and then let that keel dry out so no water is trapped inside. then look to see if there is any sepertion of that fiberglasst cover seperated from the keel itself. If so then suggest small fiberglass shards with resin slightly pushed between the fiberglass and keel. Fill in with fiberglass and fair off with two part epoxy that will work underwater for example Water Tite and finish off with coatings of epoxy barrier coat and anti fouling paint
Others will chime in but the damage appears to be new
Being a former Catalina dealer after 1984, all swing keels were cast iron. It looks like it is encapsulated by a fiberglass cover which I have seen in the past. The person who would know is Gerald Douglas at the Florida plant for Catalina. You could call them.
Since the damage is near the leading edge makes me think the keel was hit on something and a good example could be something in the water or on the trailer. I bet on the trailer. Since you did not see this when inspecting this before purchase is the reason why I mentioned the trailer. Could it have been possibly loading up onto the trailer cockeyed or the keel was not full up? Is the trailer keel tray rotten or the boards too far apart? Any protruding parts from trailer? We will never know but food for thought as I did not know the sequence of events.
If it is cast iron with a fiberglass cover the biggest thing is to apply a metal primer that contains zinc chromate to stop any corrosion on the exposed cast iron and then let that keel dry out so no water is trapped inside. then look to see if there is any sepertion of that fiberglasst cover seperated from the keel itself. If so then suggest small fiberglass shards with resin slightly pushed between the fiberglass and keel. Fill in with fiberglass and fair off with two part epoxy that will work underwater for example Water Tite and finish off with coatings of epoxy barrier coat and anti fouling paint
Others will chime in but the damage appears to be new
It's lead, not iron. The change happened in/after 1995, at the end of the MkII run. Try sticking a magnet to it, just for fun.
I'd LOVE to see some closer, clearer pics of that damage, if you get the opportunity. Just to gain knowledge of the keel's anatomy. If/when I buy one, I might preemptively reinforce the leading edge before installing it, based on what a peek inside might reveal.
That keel comes on current production C22's. I live near the factory, so I'm in a position to pick one up in person and save a pantload on the freight.
I'd LOVE to see some closer, clearer pics of that damage, if you get the opportunity. Just to gain knowledge of the keel's anatomy. If/when I buy one, I might preemptively reinforce the leading edge before installing it, based on what a peek inside might reveal.
That keel comes on current production C22's. I live near the factory, so I'm in a position to pick one up in person and save a pantload on the freight.
@Gene Neill
Look at the original post. 1984 Catalina 22.
Verification from Catalina will confirm that. Douglas is the chief designer.
Look at the original post. 1984 Catalina 22.
Verification from Catalina will confirm that. Douglas is the chief designer.
All Douglas can tell you is that that boat came with an iron keel. He has no way of knowing what it has now.
A magnet will.
A magnet will.
Gene;
I can answer this as I reviewed my records ..
The regular Catalina 22were as you found out were cast iron keels. With the introduction of the Catalina 22 Sport by me at the Annapolis Sailboat Show, it was different as it was designed to be the racing version of the regular 22 with less weight and as a bare bones sailboat so the buyer could equip the boat with his own racing gear/sails with less amenities as well. The hull and sail deminsions along with the weight of the keel pretty remained the same. In Fact the Sport 22 trailer by Roadking was designed by my friend, Ron Frisosky and myself included. The original swing keel for the Sport 22 was cast iron but soon after it became a lead center with fiberglass overlay swing keel while I was still a Catalina dealer. I hope this answers your questins
I can answer this as I reviewed my records ..
The regular Catalina 22were as you found out were cast iron keels. With the introduction of the Catalina 22 Sport by me at the Annapolis Sailboat Show, it was different as it was designed to be the racing version of the regular 22 with less weight and as a bare bones sailboat so the buyer could equip the boat with his own racing gear/sails with less amenities as well. The hull and sail deminsions along with the weight of the keel pretty remained the same. In Fact the Sport 22 trailer by Roadking was designed by my friend, Ron Frisosky and myself included. The original swing keel for the Sport 22 was cast iron but soon after it became a lead center with fiberglass overlay swing keel while I was still a Catalina dealer. I hope this answers your questins
One other thing comes to mind on that 1984 swing keel. Was it replaced in the past 10 or 12 years with a new one!
@Crazy Dave Condon , @Gene Neill : Thank you both for your comments. I did test it with a magnet and it is indeed a cast iron keel.
The boat has been on the trailer for the past 8 years where she remains today. I had about a 3-hour drive after I picked her up. I'm wondering if, after sitting inside a commercial storage facility for 8 years, the vibration/jarring of the trip home may have caused the fiberglass to crack? It appears that someone attempted to repair the swing kill in the past and the fiberglass is actually separating/cracking. I am going to try to get it into a professional fiberglass boat repair shop in Fort Smith to be sure I don't cause further damage. Thanks again for your expertise and comments.
The boat has been on the trailer for the past 8 years where she remains today. I had about a 3-hour drive after I picked her up. I'm wondering if, after sitting inside a commercial storage facility for 8 years, the vibration/jarring of the trip home may have caused the fiberglass to crack? It appears that someone attempted to repair the swing kill in the past and the fiberglass is actually separating/cracking. I am going to try to get it into a professional fiberglass boat repair shop in Fort Smith to be sure I don't cause further damage. Thanks again for your expertise and comments.
@kdwood It is true it is only money.
There is a certain joyful feeling that comes along with boat ownership when you make your own repairs. This type of task is a possible DIY if you are the least bit handy. There is quite a bit of expertise to help here. Just encouraging you.
If your new to you boat is from the 1980-90 range then DIY work makes sense. If it is a newer Thant 2007 then perhaps (not always) the finish of a BMW (boat marine worker) may be worthwhile.
There is a certain joyful feeling that comes along with boat ownership when you make your own repairs. This type of task is a possible DIY if you are the least bit handy. There is quite a bit of expertise to help here. Just encouraging you.
If your new to you boat is from the 1980-90 range then DIY work makes sense. If it is a newer Thant 2007 then perhaps (not always) the finish of a BMW (boat marine worker) may be worthwhile.
You are welcome sir. Originally the fiberglass was laid on the cast iron but over time separatists from that surface. I have seen this a lot over the years. I concur with jssailem that you can repair. We will help you
Yep yep.
Well, dang. I was excited for you! A modern lead keel would have been awesome, but you still have what looks like a beautifully restored iron keel, with only one boo boo to fix. It's all good!
Well, dang. I was excited for you! A modern lead keel would have been awesome, but you still have what looks like a beautifully restored iron keel, with only one boo boo to fix. It's all good!
@kdwood , If this keel is a fiberglass covered iron keel it didn't have to hit anything to cause the crack. A little water intrusion, some below freezing weather and POP. One way to repair it is to take it back to original. Rip all the glass off, prime, fair, and paint. Eliminates many problems. If you do repair the glass make sure to check the area around the swing pin and lift cable as those would be hard to seal and are below the waterline allowing water intrusion between the iron and glass.
@LeeandRick Thank you for the help. This is an amazing forum. Everyone is very friendly and willing to help out. Much appreciated!