Storm sail / number 3

Feb 16, 2015
36
hi I am thinking about adding a number three / sort of Storm head sail to my Catalina 31
As a lot of the twilight racing we do is in 15-20 knots and as soon as you wind up some head sail the boat will not point
Option 1 is to buy a Storm sail that raps around the furling head sail?

Option 2 iner forestry that is room able that fits on to the bow fitting just behind the furler drum , bit worried about putting press on the drum ?

Any thort ?
Cheers mat
 
Nov 8, 2010
11,386
Beneteau First 36.7 & 260 Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
15 to 20 kn of true breeze is not storm conditions. Some lighter boats will switch down to a number three then, but you really shouldn't need to go to a storm sail. I'm assuming you're racing JAM, and using your Genoa to go down wind. Anything you can do here is going to be a compromise. How big is your head sail now? I would assume that a 135 would work well in that wind range upwind and still work downwind.
 
Nov 18, 2010
2,441
Catalina 310 Hingham, MA
He said, 31 foot Catalina. I would assume that is a 310. They come with a 135 Jenny stock. But over 16 knots and you have to start reefing to keep her flat. When our factory sails are do for retirement we plan to get a 110 Jenny. But we are located in St. Thomas. So 15-20 knots with little gusts is the the typical conditions. (besides this week where we have a high pressure system giving us 20 knots gusting to 40 knots with little notice, sucky conditions to sail. Had my daysail trimaran out and got one arma 6 feet off the water in a gust with reef 3 in and a 50% headsail. Bring on the trade winds. I miss sailing at over 20 knots!).

Back to the sail choice. The C310 came with a two track foil on the headstay. So a 135 Jenny and a 90% or 100% jib would work easily and be a good combo for most conditions.
 

Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
Option 1. - Gale sail. No, you would have MAYBE a 0.15 head sail. Something like 80 sq. ft!
What Jackdaw said, those really are not storm conditions. Maybe reefed racing but not storm sailing.
JK has it, a 100 is good for a first reef situation in 18-20 kt. Range, and still gives you power for the downwind leg.
 
Feb 16, 2015
36
I think you guys are right I am after a number three head sail
Got a bit carried away with the Storm sail

What do you think about this a flat number three on a inner forestry attached to the bow fitting for up wind work
At the top mark drop the number three
And furl out the number one for the reach ?

Just a bit worried about it chafing on the furling drum ?

And if I get caught out in bad weather the just the number three no main we'll get me home

Thanks for all the feed back

Cheers mat
 

DaveJ

.
Apr 2, 2013
449
Catalina 310 Niagara-on-the-Lake
Thinking about the small head sail (~90%) on a C310, do the tracks go far enough forward for proper sail shape? If they do I think this is great for those real windy days that you want to sail/race. I know lots of sailors that have smaller sails they rarely use, if you can get proper sail shape this can be a cost effective solution.
It was mentioned above that the C310 has a dual track foil on the headstay. But you can only use 1 sail at a time, what is the advantage of the dual track?

Cheers
 
May 20, 2016
3,014
Catalina 36 MK1 94 Everett, WA
. But you can only use 1 sail at a time, what is the advantage of the dual track?
You hoist the replacement sail while still flying the other one - once the replacement is up you pull down the original sail. - try that with hank on's.
 
Jul 12, 2011
1,165
Leopard 40 Jupiter, Florida
Mat, can you give us some more info on the use of your proposed upwind sail? First, what is your typical race - main & jib with one mile legs, or something longer. The upwind leg is going to be about half of your race (30 minutes?), and pointing will be as important as boat speed. Do you ever do spinnaker races?

Second, what is your crew like (size, age, and experience - particularly the bow). The dual track foil and the discussion of headsail changes noted above implies that a couple of people are going forward right after the upwind mark and doing a headsail change on the bouncing deck. Are you folks comfortable with that maneuver? This gives you a pointing advantage with a smaller headsail, then upsizing your sail area for the reach and run legs. The headsail work costs time, however as many main/jib rules require you going "bare headed" during sail changes (first drop the old sail, then put up the new one). In a short race, or with an inexperienced crew, the advantage can be lost as you wallow around doing a headsail change (think two knots slower). Personally, I think that a three-mile beer can race is too short to get back that lost time due to better pointing. In such races, we normally roller-furl if needed, and let out the headsail after rounding the windward mark. You should also consider if you are over powered (excess healing), then the issue may be with too much main showing.

Jackdaw, I bow to your superior racing experience, so pls correct me where I am wrong.
 
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Jul 27, 2011
4,988
Bavaria 38E Alamitos Bay
Having fought with this issue for years on two yachts, basically cruisers that I've also raced, I conclude there's no "easy" or casual solution for these racer/cruiser designs. If you wish to carry the correct sails for the variety of conditions that you will face then you must also have the ability to change them during competition, which means you need a practiced crew. Roller-reefing headsails that use a foil are typically heavier than hanked ones due to (yes, optional) sun protection fabric and/or foam luffs; they don't hoist as quickly (friction), sometimes jumping the groove (at the feed), and they do not stay attached to the head-stay all along the luff when being changed. Thus, they have to be "man-handled", especially in high wind. Of course, a No. 3 is a small sail so changing to it might not be as difficult as going back to the larger one.

I would first explore all other methods (e.g., sail trim; mainsail reefing, especially flat reefing) to keeping the boat flat, including if necessary feathering the boat to the upwind mark if not too distant so you'll have the genny already up for the downwind. Yes, you probably will get bowled over rounding the leeward mark and coming back on the wind. If there is room (no other boat right over you), however, you might quickly just come up a bit higher (pinch/feather) to get set before working the boat to the next weather mark. If it's expected to be strong and gusty most of the time you're out (after the start) and you do have the No. 3, consider putting it on before you go out. If the other boats are fighting it, you'll eventually be zipping past them on the upwind leg(s). If the situation does allow it w/ no time loss, put the genny back on if the wind lightens, etc.

Of course, another possibility might be to order up a new genny with a somewhat flatter cut/draft for when you're racing; one that's more dialed in to the conditions you typically experience. That, in combination with flat reefing the mainsail and applying other trim techniques (including rail meat), might work out for you.
 
Last edited:
Mar 10, 2015
62
Catalina 30 Moss Landing, CA
hi I am thinking about adding a number three / sort of Storm head sail to my Catalina 31
As a lot of the twilight racing we do is in 15-20 knots and as soon as you wind up some head sail the boat will not point
Option 1 is to buy a Storm sail that raps around the furling head sail?

Option 2 iner forestry that is room able that fits on to the bow fitting just behind the furler drum , bit worried about putting press on the drum ?

Any thort ?
Cheers mat
If you're racing this solution is the worst of both worlds: a furled genny at the luff causing much windage and disturbed flow over the tiny storm jib.

The best answer IMO is a #3 genoa, which is about 100-110% overlap, and with a near full height luff, what's called a Solent jib across the eastern pond. This will be a much better upwind sail in the above conditions, and not so bad off the wind if you can move your clew out to the rail and several feet forward with a snatch-block. A low cut 135 is not very efficient off the wind with it's hooked clew which back-winds the main. With the jib, the main is more efficient reaching with the more open "slot" and ability to get main more to leeward with traveler/sheet/vang.

Or, keep the 135, pull a reef or two in the main, and get some more meat on the rail!