My universal 25xp starter began working intermittently and then just stopped. I have replaced the starter and solenoid, cleaned the grounds, replaced the ignition switch and the starter button, replaced the trailer connector with screw-down connector (the connector by the panel looks OK), checked all the fuses and checked the battery. Now if I just hit the starter button starter will turn the motor, but if I heat the glow plugs and try again I get nothing from the starter, but if I jump the solenoid terminals and the starter will turn the motor. Has anyone had this problem?
Starter acting strangely
- Thread starter Franzcat
- Start date
Had a similar problem with my 5411. Ended up running an extra ground cable right to the starter motor. No more problem. ( for the last 2 years anyway )
Could try that with a jumper cable to check it out. Tip was from a kid at the starter rebuild place that had an old M.G.
Starter motors usually do not work intermittently; I think your problem is a common one and it has to do with the wiring from the control panel to the solenoid. As this wiring ages (10+) years a drop in voltage can be experienced which cause a failure to activate the solenoid. A freshly charged strong battery can overcome the resistance on the wiring but it seems that after servicing the glow plugs it does not have the capacity required by the wiring. Look on the archives and you will find a few time tested solutions from re-wiring , relocating or adding a push button switch to/at the engine compartment (a clean install for jumping the solenoid) or adding an auxiliary solenoid. The drop in voltage does start intermittently and eventually will become more frequent.
Replace the other trailer connector. "Looks OK" doesn't mean a thing. And running the engine ground cable direct to one of the starter mounting bolts will help. A little grease, oil, or dirt on the mounting face and threads can interrupt the current flow.
Now, that is really interesting, especially since I also have an old MG that occasionally doesn't want to start. I will try it on both. Many thanks!
I will do these things. I have nor replaced the connector near the panel on the recommendation of an electrician, but have the other connector anyway so what the heck. If all else fails, I have a new harness that I can put in. Running a jumper to the starter sounds like another good idea. Many thanks!
I don't know the age - but be sure you do the amp-meter bypass and install a relay for the glow plugs -- you might not be charging to full potential on a tired battery - then loosing some of the power to heat up wires between the engine and panel. I think MainSail has info on his site for both these mods - if not check out Stu Jackson's Catalina 32 site, lots of great info.
Les
Les
it is an 89, so I have a voltmeter, but will do the bypass anyway. Not sure I understand the glo plug relay so I will look into it. Many thanks!
Early M25's ( and XP ???) powered the glow plugs thru the panel switch. Lots of current up and back panel to engine ( similar to amp gage). The relay mods keep big current local to engine by using a relay to turn on the glow plugs. The panel then only needs to drive the relay coil not the plugs.
I had an old 6Volts Volkswagen that suffered from the malady so I installed an auxiliary push button switch directly to the solenoid by the back seat (rear engine) and every time I turned the key and nothing happened I would reach back in between the front seats and push the button.
Sounds like my MG. That is essentially what I am doing now with the Catalina 30. Hopefully I can work out the bugs with the advice you (and others) have given me.
I replaced the ground cable with a new #2 cable, switched out the old trailer connectors and had a friend with a meter and knowledge come over and take a look at my starter. It seems that the batteries (two of original size in good condition-delivering over 14 volts) can turn the starter strongly. When I hit the glo-plugs (using me new ignition switch and starter button) the glow plug circuit drains the batteries to the degree that there is not enough power to activate the solenoid (down to about 12 volts). Is this your experience? I plan to eventually install a separate starter battery and go to a solenoid for the glo plugs, but it seems that the original set-up should be capable of starting the engine. Your thoughts?
Your batteries should be able to run both the starter and glow plugs. Will starter turn it over with 30 seconds of glow plugs and then no glow plug when cranking??
I still say that the problem lies with the old wiring in the electrical circuits servicing the glow plugs and the starter. Look into the possibility that these two circuits are sharing a wire causing both circuits to experience heat when the glow plugs are activated. We know from experience that heating old wiring can significantly can increase its electrical resistance which in turn causes voltage drop. Perhaps adding some external jumper wiring could cure the problem but the best fix would be to rewire the harness and all wiring going to the panel.
I replaced the ground cable with a new #2 cable, switched out the old trailer connectors and had a friend with a meter and knowledge come over and take a look at my starter. It seems that the batteries (two of original size in good condition-delivering over 14 volts) can turn the starter strongly. When I hit the glo-plugs (using me new ignition switch and starter button) the glow plug circuit drains the batteries to the degree that there is not enough power to activate the solenoid (down to about 12 volts). Is this your experience? I plan to eventually install a separate starter battery and go to a solenoid for the glo plugs, but it seems that the original set-up should be capable of starting the engine. Your thoughts?
Answer: When I get to the boat (and the charger has been on the battery a while) if I just turn on the 1-2 switch, turn on the ignition and hit the starter button the starter will run strong. If I hit the glow plugs for 10-15 seconds and hit the starter again the starter will not run. If I leave everything alone for 15-20 minutes (the charger is running) and try again, the starter will run. If I hit the glow plugs again the starter will again not run. To make things even weirder, if I then cross the solenoid posts with a screwdriver the starter will run.
Thanks, Benny. That is my next step. I think I will document the origin and home of each wire on the engine and panel (there are already some "extras" that don't show up on the schematic), disconnect everything and install a new harness. The mystery to me is that this set-up functioned just fine until about four months ago. Guess time (and use) has its way with everything.