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Stack pack

Discussion in 'Smaller Boats' started by GBGraham, Apr 11, 2019. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. GBGraham

    GBGraham

    Joined Nov 10, 2017
    222 posts, 29 likes
    Hunter Legend 260
    Omega Gr Epidavros
    I'm just wondering if anybody out there has already done this, similar or has any thoughts thus having any pro's or con's for what I am doing?
    This is another project I'm doing which is fitting a stack pack system. The bag I've had made is of a conventional type.
    I've done a jury rig Stb side with the lazy lines tied to the boom in the approximate positions of the bag. This is my idea for bringing the lazy lines to cow horns on the boom end so I can adjust from in the cockpit, and it seems to work.
    Of course the main reason is to prevent another journey to the mast. It's not at all a conventional way but it goes like this and hoping you can follow this.
    Still using the mast pulley blocks, the line carrying the pulley block that the 2 forward lazy lines go through, this goes forward way around the mast pulley with the line leading out aft with another pulley block on the end of this line. Then the line that goes though this pulley goes to the 3rd lazy point with the bitter end going to the cow horn cleat on the boom to tension from this point.
    I was thinking of temporarily fitting a short shock cord via the cleat as a safe guard just in case it over tensions.
    Feel free with comments either way.
     


  2. DrJudyB

    DrJudyB

    Joined Jun 25, 2004
    318 posts, 231 likes
    Corsair F24 Mk1
    003 US San Francisco Bay, CA
    GB,
    Can you post a drawing?
     


  3. GBGraham

    GBGraham

    Joined Nov 10, 2017
    222 posts, 29 likes
    Hunter Legend 260
    Omega Gr Epidavros
    Here is a quick drawing of sorts and definitely not to scale nor precision, but it will give you the gist of what I am doing. I could have soon shown you in the flesh but it's a wet day here and for the next few too.

    IMG_20190412_113740.jpg
     


  4. Crazy Dave Condon

    Crazy Dave Condon

    Joined Jun 8, 2004
    7,208 posts, 769 likes
    -na -NA
    US Anywhere USA
    Dealers had various opinions but for the most part, most stayed away from the stack pack. If and I believe you know how to flake a mainsail, that is the key. It will require a quick release swivel cam cleat to quickly release the main halyard. The stack pack will require you to climb up onto the cabin top. Here is how I taught my folks. Start the motor, point into the wind, furl the jib, with a flick of the main halyard you can quickly lower the sail, flake the mainsail by pulling down and back with several ties adding the mainsail cover either motoring back or at the dock. It takes more time on a small boat with stack packs.

    With a mainsail cover there is no room for critters to nest inside like I have seen with a stack pack plus it is open on the bottom so critters will fall out and the sail if wet will have a better chance to dry. Once a dealer who was a sailmaker as well as a dealer, sold a 260 to a physician with a stack pack but never serviced the boat. Being over 200 miles away and frustrated, I received a call form the customer. Arrangements were made to go to the boat two days later upon receiving the call for a variety of reasons which one were squirrels nesting inside that stack pack chewing up his mainsail. After replacing the mainsail three times, that customer listened to me about going with a standard cover finding it easier to take on and off. The first time he found moth balls under that cover and called me. I told him we were trying to re educate those squirrels and it drove them off for the next ten years.
    Another call was from someone who moved to North Carolina coast due to being in the service with his 260 which had a stack pack. The officer said on the phone he was TDY from the base but asked if I would go and fix a couple of things and to look at his mainsail. When opening the stack pack, I saw the tail end of a Cotton Mouth snake. I ran as quick as I could seeing one of the most venomous and aggressive snakes. The snake nested in the stack pack. The officer finally admitted and apologized hoping that I would remove the snake but instead gave him a name and phone number to call to get the snake out of there. The marina shut off that part of the marina and the CO of the base reprimanded the officer putting lives at risk for knowing that snake was there. A large fine was assessed to be paid to me. I took the check but later returned it to the officer. What was said was not pretty but after an apology, I agreed to work on his boat. We became friends finding out which military colleges we both went to. .
     


    Rick D likes this.
  5. GBGraham

    GBGraham

    Joined Nov 10, 2017
    222 posts, 29 likes
    Hunter Legend 260
    Omega Gr Epidavros
    There seems to be quite some negativity for a sail pack, it's like trying to keep up with Brexit at home (UK).
    Just to repeat CD, It's ok for you giving a flick of a wrist #4, I've had a partial wrist fusion to my left hand. I manage quite well but I do know that I pay quite heavily in night pain after a decent sail. Another good reason for lines back to the cockpit.
    Last year I had lazy jacks which was 2 pair and I ran to the cow horn cleats that i had put on the boom end. The boat needed a new mainsail cover so to me the obvious path was a stack pack which I'm intending 3 pair of lazy's. As I've stated, I'm on a mooring bouy in the Med, basically no rain in the summer and definitely no squirrels that swim, especially in salt water.

    DK (Post #24 on Adding a second reef to a H260), I can't believe you are complaining about taking an extra 5 minutes or so to undo the lazy's, and lash them to the mast before lowering. Especially when you praise your your love of the ease and only having to do it annually . . . . regarding reasoning, sorry I'm lost for words.
     


  6. Dennis Kitchen

    Dennis Kitchen

    Joined Jun 4, 2004
    376 posts, 117 likes
    Hunter 23.5 and 25
    US Stockton State Park Marina; MO
    Hmmm, perhaps I'll include them when I make my new stackpack. I used a local supposedly " outdoor " fabric that faded in two weeks and has shrunk and UV degraded in 3 seasons. Better engineering and execution this next time. But for now it's back to this forever remodel job.......
    Dennis
     


  7. GBGraham

    GBGraham

    Joined Nov 10, 2017
    222 posts, 29 likes
    Hunter Legend 260
    Omega Gr Epidavros
    For me it's Sunbrella every time, lasts years even here in the Mediterranean where we have very harsh UV conditions.
     


    DrJudyB likes this.
  8. topcat0399

    topcat0399

    Joined Aug 22, 2011
    1,068 posts, 107 likes
    MacGregor Venture V224
    US Cheeseland
    its a comfort to know that others are also living the "forever remodel job"...
     


  9. Crazy Dave Condon

    Crazy Dave Condon

    Joined Jun 8, 2004
    7,208 posts, 769 likes
    -na -NA
    US Anywhere USA
    I only give an opinion and it is the owner of the boat who needs to make his decision. Never berate those who give suggestions because we cannot read your mind. First I do not ask anyone’s age nor gender. Secondly, I do not know where and if boat if boat is to be moored. I do not ask if there are any disabilities. Fourth when suggesting equipment, it is up to the poster to research the gear suggested. An example is the fixed base cam cleat which merely raising the line will release the halyard and pulling down will lock it. It is up to anyone asking to tell us to advise pertinent data. Only had I known. As to personal data I suggest advising thru private messages as we do not know whom is reading this forum for security. The less time taking taking the boat out of the water with mast down and secured every time one goes sailing after a relaxing day on the water particularly on a hot day is one aspect of trailering.

    As for lazy jacks that is a personal decision and many water ballast boats of various brands that are trailered do not have them as it takes too much time when dropping the mast to properly securing them. You have to make sure lines/cables and blocks are secured so not to flap in the wind being towed and could possibly damage mast or boat. I have with all makes of water ballast have raised and lowered masts over 5000 times. Like I said it is the owners decision to add what they want on the boat.

    May I suggest in the future you advise of all facts and be positive. However at this point I will no longer respond to your questions. FYI following 2 1/2 monthsbof open heart surgery months I helped a friend to raise his hunter 260 mast out of state.
     


  10. GBGraham

    GBGraham

    Joined Nov 10, 2017
    222 posts, 29 likes
    Hunter Legend 260
    Omega Gr Epidavros
    First I respect those asking questions just like GBGraham did and in no way am I upset with him. All of us try to provide information so the owner of his or her boat can make an intellectual decision. In fact there are no stupid questions because I already preceded everyone asking them anyway. I prefere those who have the intellect to ask which I respect out of safety. Therefore GBGRaham, ask away and always understand I am never upset.[/QUOTE]

    Well CD bat and ball time, I take that #9 speech was for my benefit. I will try and keep it short as short as possible.
    I ask questions to see if anyone has done the same or similar, I'm going to try/do it anyway, succeed or fail. Along the way I often give reasons why I want or need to alter or modify. I am not really asking for opinions in negativity but more for encouragement.
    So ok I have been told that single line reefing gives too much friction, but how much, and I do take this on board, really.
    But this will not stop trying and if it is too much friction for me I will go to two reef lines. I am not short of time nor in effort.
    Now with you being the Godfather and have been involved from birth with certain models you may think there is totally no reason why your, (lets say) baby should need mods. To this I would wholly disagree, imho they have plenty of, not failings, lets say improvements. I am definitely not trying to mend something that isn't broken, that's me that needs mending.
    I don't class it as personal information more a need to know basis, If you bother to read my posts you will see that I do "advise of facts" if the contributors don't understand where I coming from, how can anyone give me an educated and/or conclusive reply.
    My humour may come out as flippant with tongue in cheek comments that may get interpreted wrongly, believe me I am not having a dig. One would know in no uncertain terms if it did occur, or it may just be a culture thing. (different sides of the Pond)
    I just want and need to keep sailing, I don't care if something takes a little longer or is a faff as long as the effort is worthwhile, not anyone else, for me and I sure as hell don't need putting down for this
    At the end of the day I'm a creaking gate and I need to prepare to be able to keep sailing, but sail I will.
    So sorry to have bothered you all.
     


  11. DrJudyB

    DrJudyB

    Joined Jun 25, 2004
    318 posts, 231 likes
    Corsair F24 Mk1
    003 US San Francisco Bay, CA
    GB,

    This looks like it will work, but there's one thing I wonder about. How will you detach the lazy jacks/stackpack/boom from the mast? I think you'll want to be able to do that.

    In addition to what you've drawn, have you considered adding a "halyard" to the lazy jacks/stackpack? When you need to drop the mast and remove the boom, you can lower the halyard to drop the cradle legs and stack pack, and then disconnect the halyard from the "cradle legs". Then you can detach the boom before you lower the mast. That's how my lazy jacks work, and it only adds about 3-5 minutes to mast raising and lowering. See picture of my system below (not to scale).

    By the way, putting the cheek block on the mast about 65-70% up the luff seems to work well. I suggest you make the bottom cradle legs fairly short. We made the legs out of 2 mm dyneema with eye splices; it's slippery enough that we we need blocks or rings.

    Also, take a look at this website for ideas https://jiffyjax.com/demophotos.html

    Lazy Jack drawing F241-v2.jpg

     


    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
    GBGraham likes this.
  12. GBGraham

    GBGraham

    Joined Nov 10, 2017
    222 posts, 29 likes
    Hunter Legend 260
    Omega Gr Epidavros
    Thank you so much for coming back to me with your thoughts and suggestions. I love the suggestion of the Tides Track, my last boat had the Selden RCB Fully-Battened System. I'm not so sure whether it would warrant the cost though and it would have to be a project over the next winter, but it's definitely food for thought.
    I don't remove the lazy jack lines from the mast, I just coil and lash them back to the mast as they present no problem for me with the mast raising or lowering.
    I looked at the link and I am using blocks rather rings or thimbles. At the moment I'm not sure on the length of the cradle legs and I am open to suggestions but the battens ends need to clear easily on the raise.
     


  13. MaxinCalgary

    MaxinCalgary

    Joined Apr 8, 2013
    183 posts, 10 likes
    Hunter 260
    CN Nanaimo
    It's a mod I'm interested in doing.
    lee sails has a stack pac that I'm interested in .
     


  14. GBGraham

    GBGraham

    Joined Nov 10, 2017
    222 posts, 29 likes
    Hunter Legend 260
    Omega Gr Epidavros
    I can send to you the finished results of mine if this will help you? Unfortunately the wet weather is hampering my progress to finish.
     


  15. GBGraham

    GBGraham

    Joined Nov 10, 2017
    222 posts, 29 likes
    Hunter Legend 260
    Omega Gr Epidavros
    A dry morning here for a change and the first chance to try out my DIY stack pack on the boat.
    I'm happy with the outcome and it just needs a little tweak or two. It didn't hurt too much, it cost me $200 all in.
    It took 4 minutes to remove the whole thing and lash the lj's to the mast!
     

    Attached Files:



    Dennis Kitchen likes this.
  16. MaxinCalgary

    MaxinCalgary

    Joined Apr 8, 2013
    183 posts, 10 likes
    Hunter 260
    CN Nanaimo
    Very nicely done.
    Question, how is the stack pack attatched too the boom. I assume that your sail isn't loose footed and you have a bolt rope .
     


  17. GBGraham

    GBGraham

    Joined Nov 10, 2017
    222 posts, 29 likes
    Hunter Legend 260
    Omega Gr Epidavros
    The sail is loose footed with a bolt line so I have used the sail slot to retain the sail bag.
     


  18. MaxinCalgary

    MaxinCalgary

    Joined Apr 8, 2013
    183 posts, 10 likes
    Hunter 260
    CN Nanaimo
  19. GBGraham

    GBGraham

    Joined Nov 10, 2017
    222 posts, 29 likes
    Hunter Legend 260
    Omega Gr Epidavros


  20. Ron20324

    Ron20324

    Joined Jan 22, 2008
    6,786 posts, 834 likes
    Beneteau 323
    US Annapolis MD
    A slip neighbor put each half of his Lazy Bag onto the boom. I may do that as mine always holds rain water.