Stack pack

[paulj]

Paul,
Not looking to hijack the post - but As we are getting older were looking for ways to say in the cockpit and avoid being up on deck especially in storm conditions. (I know avoid storms) And our Dutchman has never works as everyone seem to think it should. (local sail loft said they are a real love / hate relationship and we see that) So were looking at the Stack Pack, or locally named substitute of same. Looked at furling mast refit (ouch) or in boom furling (slightly less but still big ouch) and stack pack ($600.00 from sail loft) but wanted to get some real world feedback from a real (and trusted User of the system) Do you find you can actually stay in the cockpit when dropping the main and deal with getting it stowed away at a later time? Are the lazy jacks associated with the stack pack a major pain? Your thoughts are appreciated.

Russ
s/v Long Story


Russ

First off I have installed mast gates..............



paulj

 

[nameless]

We installed Ullman's UStack system along with Tides Marine track assy. and finally enjoy sailing at the start and finish.. When raising head to wind done correctly results in a simple and easy raising. Lowering is equally simple. Hold the halyard to control (slow) the descending sail. At the dock zip up the top of the UStack and you're done. Being a card carrying member of the Medicare generation, the UStack has added many years to our sailing. Avatar picture is a small view of the installed equipment. Jerry Latell of the Ullman Loft at Deltaville did the work, highly recommended.

 

[SawyerCurt]

I'll re-post since you moved this out to a new thread...

I find with the stack pack that the sail doesn't easily drop the last 2 feet or so, and I end up going forward to push it down into the stack pack. In terms of hoisting the sail I don't have to leave the cockpit - I can open the stack pack and raise the main without going forward. But when I am taking the sail down that last 2 feet just refuse to drop into the pack and forward I go.

 

[smokey73]

I find that when hoisting the main you really have to be careful not to catch a batten end on the lazy jacks, but that is just a matter of making sure you're into the wind and letting the traveler run free so if you are a few degrees off the wind or it shifts a little. It seems to hoist better with more relative wind on the bow to keep the main on line with the wind. In lower relative winds the main tends to "drift" a little and occassionaly catch a batten on the lazy jack if your'e not watching it carefully. Its still no problem to hoist from the cockpit. If you catch a batten you just let it back down a little and then hoist away.

We have a very tall mast (58 foot or so) and a big main. When droping the main it comes down quickly and smoothly except about the last 5 or 6 feet. I have to go up and pull down the last bit. If the winds aren't too strong this is not a problem but if we're going to motor for a long distance or if the winds are strong I worry about the wind catching the little bit thats out and yanking the rest of the sail out. I still like the Stack Pack with Tides Marine track but wish it would drop the last few feet by itself.

 

[Tally Ho]

My first boat had lazy jacks but a traditional sail cover. I liked the lazy jacks (I single-hand a lot and it made dropping the sail a breeze). My latest boat had no lazy jacks, and I found it hard to drop the main when out solo. Decided on the Mack Pack from Mack Sails as it did not require any modification of the main sail.

Lowering the main, and covering the sail can now be done while motoring into the marina, even when solo. My sail will not drop completely into the cover as others have noted, but It did not drop completely even before the Mack Pack was installed. I don't have a track system, and I am sure that would help, but for now, I lower the sail, set the autopilot and pull the sail in, zip the cover and am done with it.

I have a few videos (installation and some sailing videos) that may give you some feel for it...

Www.wcwebs.net/oday322
Look under "Projects" for the Mack Pack installation and under "Photos" for the sailing videos.

I really do like the Mack Pack, love the lazy jacks, and would not want to go back.

Greg

 

[SailormanDan]

I sewed a Sailpack using the instructions and materials from Sailrite and like having the "basket" formed by the lazyjacks & Sailpack to hold all the cloth so that when you drop the main you can see and I don't have to deal with all the cloth laying on the deck.
I have a similar problem with the sail not dropping all the way in, but Sailrite has you install the front panel with zippers on either side, so I'm able to reach in and pull out the flakes and get it to lay down the rest of the way before zipping it shut. I also have to watch the battens catching, which can be a bit of a hassle, but I'm thinking about it beforehand now, instead of hauling on my halyard and wondering why the sail won't go up.

 

[paulj]

Russ

In 2008 I got a UK Halsey cradle Seattle Boat Show special and was installed in Sidney, BC.

My main sail was also converted to a loose footed main.

I made a couple of modifications to the setup and have been satisfied with the stack pack or cradle as it was called then.

Installing mast gates allowed sail to come all the way down.....easy peaseee

I made the decision for a stack pack because a lot of charter boats in BVI had them and it looked so easy to handle a big main sail.

paulj

 

[Long Story]

Thank you to all for your comments, photos, links and advice. There seems to be a great upside to a version of this system, with not near the expense of other options. It does look like you end up with a handful of new eyes, cam cleats and little lines to deal with, I'm sure that becomes 2nd nature after a few time out.
Paul; what made you go to a lose footed main. what advantage do you find?
Greg - nice video link to this project and some other neat stuff - thank you..

Russ
s/v Long Story

 

[paulj]

Russ
http://www.fxsails.com/article_loosefoot.php


paulj

 

[Rick D]

I had one on my 40.5 but removed it and simply went with lazy jacks. My full batten main still fell outside of the pack in the back 1/3rd and was a PITA to raise in any seas. Believe me, I tried all kinds of adjustments. I also had to replace the zipper twice and had to climb like a monkey to reach the top, which, of course, I still have to do with a standard cover. I also found I did not like sailing with it deployed, so I wound up furling it on the boom sides. All in all, almost as much time and effort as the standard main with lazy jacks. So, the lazy jacks are retractable now so that a standard cover can be used and so that the sail can be hoisted without tangling the battens. Part of the issue is my main is full batten but also has big and stiff reefing reinforcements what doesn't like to get tidied up. Your results may vary. I would guess 75% of the larger sailboats seen on the Med have a version of a stack pack as do most Cats I see.

 

[Bosman]

It has been many, many vintages ago when I used the "traditional" method of lowering or raising the mainsail. I've been using lazy bags systems for years now, on different boats. I will never look back again. Unless you are racing, go for it.

I do agree with the opinion that the main does not drop all the way down. Upgrade to roller mast slides or mainsail cars (this one is expensive) and the problem will very much disappear. Another aspect to keep in mind is the design of your mainsail battens. The pockets mast not go past the leech. If so, ask your local lost to modify them. You should run the lazybag's lazyjacks single line back to the cockpit as the tension requires adjustment (sailing vs moored).

 

[capta]

I've never sailed with one, but I have watched hundreds of boats raise and lower sail from them. As an observer, it seems as though full battened main is the way to go for either the pac system or straight lazy jacks. I see fewer people having problems with the full battened mains, and it makes a better furl out towards the clew. I'm guessing it would take some tweaking to get it just right, but once that is done, all should go fine.

 

[Ron20324]

Russ, in your mod2 pic, there is a leather opening... for what purpose, please?

 

[Ron20324]

The sails don't drop all the way might be because as more sail comes down, there is less weight aloft to overcome the stiffness of the bolt rope and stiff sail fabric.

 

[paulj]

Russ, in your mod2 pic, there is a leather opening... for what purpose, please?

My name is paulj and the slots are for tying off ends of reefing lines.


paulj

 

[SailormanDan]

The loose-footed main is recommended because the bottom edges of the sailpack are connected to each other under the sail with webbing straps every couple of feet, I think I have 4 for a 9'6" boom.

For the old main with a bolt-rope, I had to take a hot knife and cut slots in the sail just above the rope and thread these through them, which wasn't a big deal (once I got over the idea of putting holes in my sail).

When Bacon Sails put together the new main, they automatically suggested the loose-footed main and I think you will find on the site thoughts about how they give you better sail shape.
Dan

 

[Bosman]

The loose-footed main is recommended because the bottom edges of the sailpack are connected to each other under the sail with webbing straps every couple of feet, I think I have 4 for a 9'6" boom.
For the old main with a bolt-rope, I had to take a hot knife and cut slots in the sail just above the rope and thread these through them, which wasn't a big deal (once I got over the idea of putting holes in my sail).
When Bacon Sails put together the new main, they automatically suggested the loose-footed main and I think you will find on the site thoughts about how they give you better sail shape.
Dan

Makes no difference at all if the sail is loose-footed or with attached foot. In a perfect world, the loft should provide side tracks for attached foot mainsails. Making holes in the main?? :-/ If the loft wants to convert existing main to loose-footed design, then one should look elsewhere.

 

[FastOlson]

We have a loose foot main sail. The UK loft @ Sidney installed a new "UK Lazy Cradle" for us in 2014. Works well with no problems with battens. Our main has a "2 plus 2" batten system, i.e. two full length at top and two long ones lower down. It hoists and drops with no hang ups. Of course we do spray the slugs with MacLube once a season as well.
Loren

 

[TFrere]

I have a stack pack and love it. It is one of the best investments I ever made to my boat. My halyards are not lead to my cockpit so I still need to go to the mast to lower the main. I lower the lazy jacks every time I sail and raise them before dropping the main. My main is heavy and before I had the stack pack it used to fall onto the deck and was a bear to handle. While it does not always fall into the pack perfectly, it certainly is much easier than dealing with the sail blocking my view on the deck.

 

[SailormanDan]

Makes no difference at all if the sail is loose-footed or with attached foot. In a perfect world, the loft should provide side tracks for attached foot mainsails. Making holes in the main?? :-/ If the loft wants to convert existing main to loose-footed design, then one should look elsewhere.

That's what Sailrite recommends, I guess it saves on installing a track, I honestly didn't know and went with what they said to do. Same thing with the new main from Bacon Sails, I took their recommendations when I ordered the new sail. The boat will now actually track in a straight line on its own, so they must have done something right.