Should I lead my genoa sheets inside the shrouds?

capta · May 22, 2018

It looks to me as though you do not have the sail to match your track/block arrangement. Perhaps there is a place on the rail where you can attach a snatch block to get a better fairlead to that block.
If you really want to do this, then I suggest you get together with a local sailmaker and have him design and build a sail for sheeting inside the shrouds. A partially rolled genoa will not give you a very good sail shape or the performance you are seeking.

hewebb · May 23, 2018

This may sound bad (stupid) but I would consider running two sets of sheets. One inside for close hauled and one outside when reaching or running down wind. Can't say I have ever seen that done. You may also consider installing a new track along the toe rail. Some of us run PVC pipe up the shrouds to facilitate tacking, however , you may want to think about that to protect your jib sheets in the current condition. Not sure what I would do.

Crazy Dave Condon · May 23, 2018

First design of boats differ from model to model and manufacturer to manufacture. Can you take a full side photo and what boat do you have?

weinie · May 23, 2018

With outboard shrouds, you definitely need to go inside and use a genoa small than 115% or so.
That being said, looking on your boat on sailboatdata shows the boat with large genoa as an option.

Very odd.

Apex · May 23, 2018

I would offer that instead of rolling up and losing efficiency to point higher, either foot off or change out to a smaller headsail for pointing. I would guess you VMG doesn't change enough to bother with sheeting inside and having to furl.

shemandr · May 23, 2018

That old girl looks to be in nice condition. I sail a fair amount on a Seafarer 23 and the genoa lead is where yours is - on the coaming at the front of the cockpit. When the skipper uses a smaller headsail he has an alternative track which is inside. But his "Storm jib" doesn't overlap ( It is actually a jib from a Lightening).
There is nothing wrong with trying what you suggest and seeing how it works. For off wind work you could just roll the jib out all the way (Which is what you want if that small main) and re-run the lead, or use a short sheet. I agree with others that the rolled jib may not create good pointing but those aren't particular pointy boats anyway. The one I sail on cleans up in PHRF racing because of its rating. If you keep the speed up the rest will take care of itself.

Ken Cross · May 23, 2018

It seems to me: just unhook the sheet and try it. You can learn a lot by trial and error and it won't cost you much if anything.

Ken

FastOlson · May 23, 2018

Ken's idea is a good one. Do not be too surprised if your particular design has an optimum pointing angle that is 3 to 5 degrees wider than a more modern fin keel/ spade rudder design.
Nothing wrong with that, either.
Is this your hull and rig?
http://sailboatdata.com/viewrecord.asp?class_id=751

Even if a change in lead allows you to pinch up, you may just be trading speed for pointing and find that your course made good to weather is the same or even worse. Any time you go slower you also can suffer some more leeway due to wave resistance.
You have a 'good old boat' with nice lines. It will have strengths and weaknesses compared to some newer ones. It's nice to sail a classic that does not wallow about like many of the newer "sailing condo's"...
Enjoy it!

Pirate Dave · May 23, 2018

I know a guy with the same issue. He always complained that he could not get a good sail shape close hauled. I can see from the picture that the sheets attach the same to your sail as his. The issue is the jib is cut for reaching and running versus one that is cut for close hauling. You can either live with it like he did or get a new sail

The Shadow Knows · May 23, 2018

I use a simple approach so as not to chafe line or sail.

They make a PVC cable cover in different sizes, flexible circular tubing slotted
for easy attachment about 6 ft. long. You can apply one atop the other easily &
they come in sizes to match your cable.

I use them on my shrouds & split backstay. They also work well if your lifelines
are not coated & they last about 5 years before beginning to stiffen & cracking.

Stores like Waste Marine will have them. I've been using these for 20 yrs. now & have
had no trouble with chafing. Cost-wise, it's a bargain.

isaksp00 · May 23, 2018

I would consider adding a jib track or at least block outboard near the coaming for that jib, though this would not be inexpensive. If you use that jib all the time, amybe even move the existing tracks.
I worked at the Seafarer factory in about 1971 and depending on your year may possible have installed the ports or other hardware. Unfortunately due to the way Seafarer attached the deck to the hull (essentially gluing it on with thickened epoxy) there is no metal toerail that makes it easy to attach a block.

Meriachee · May 23, 2018

That's a very odd picture. The ability to adjust the sheeting car allows you to shape the sail for the angle and wind conditions. If the sheet is intersecting anything in that process, the car placement amounts to a null input.

DArcy · May 23, 2018

If you REALLY want to get a couple of degrees more pointing out of the boat, put a jib car track on the deck inside the shroud and re-cut the genoa (or get a new one) with a very small overlap - say around 105%. Something like a J88 http://portsanilacmarina.com/product/jboats-j88/#iLightbox[product-gallery]/0
You will loose sail area so less drive in light winds and you don't have the foils underwater to support the closer angles so you will end up with more lee way but boy, it will feel like you are pointing better.
Unfortunately, close pointing angles come down to more than just sheeting angles. In some cases you can gain a bit by re-leading sheets. New sails also helps. If you do want to try your existing sail lead to your existing track with the sail partially furled to fit under the spreader, pay attention to the lead angle. You may want to put a tweaker on to pull the clew down or in and get proper sheeting angles.

markwbird · May 23, 2018

No. It will not point better with the genoa partially rolled up. It will not do anything better with the genoa partially rolled up. Get a nice crisp new headsail that does not come all the way back to the shrouds and put a track in the deck.

Meriachee · May 23, 2018

PotomacDaysailer said:
I think I'll give my idea a trial and see what transpires. Judging by the consensus probably won't help, may hurt. I'll let you know what I find.

That's the thing that most people seem to miss. If somebody says that it's going straight to the bottom if you try to sail it with the sail furled, invite them to come with you.

Try some napkin engineering. Make notes. Then later over a cool one, consider what the notes tell you. It might surprise you.
In the words of the inevitable (yes I intended to say inevitable) Mike Rowe; "what could possibly go wrong".

Joe · May 23, 2018

Install a reaching lead block on the rail for running the genoa sheets outside the shrouds. Use the inside lead block for running the sheets inside the shrouds when sailing close reach or close hauled. You can use one set of sheets for this... simply re run the lazy sheet for the next tack. However, for convenience.. such as bearing off on the same tack... it helps to have two pairs of sheets that you can tie on when needed. Do not use a single sheet, doubled and cow hitched to the clew... use separate sheets attached with a bowline knot for easier changes.
Shackle the genoa (reaching) lead to a stanchion base or a padeye.... if you have the bucks install a track on the rail with a sliding car..

In any event, you should never have the sheets rubbing the rigging as pictured... sailing or otherwise... so when you roll up the jib remove the sheets from the lead blocks and tie them off to the mast or anywhere they won't rub.

Finally, trying to figure out your pointing angle will be frustrating unless you base it on True wind direction. Watch your compass and note the course changes on each tack. 100 deg tack to tack is pretty good for the average sailboat.

Crazy Dave Condon · May 25, 2018

Great to know which boat as you will get better suggestions. Thanks for advising

Should I lead my genoa sheets inside the shrouds?

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