Shore power

[JamesG161]

NEC is part of the ICC codes. I specifically referenced Residential housing. I am sure NEC is right about the 15 amp breaker. Perhaps it was adopted since most people see a 20 amp breaker though out the breaker panel and say "We need to change that 15 Amp like the rest" or the Code inspectors just simplify and say NO 14 gauge.
But for the cost difference in wiring and breaker for a limited use, is not worth it.
Jim...

 

[uncledom]

In commercial building no 14 gauge wire is permitted unless it used to wire a device that specifically calls for it. All convenience outlets require 12 gauge wiring in a commercial application.

 

[jssailem]

When we sailed to Roche Harbor Marina this past May, the marina dock person ran to a dock cabinet and pulled out a pigtail to attach my 30 cord to his 50 amp circuit. Only to discover that the dock connection had both 30 and 50 amp so no need.
Now that is service.

 

[JimInPB]

In commercial building no 14 gauge wire is permitted unless it used to wire a device that specifically calls for it. All convenience outlets require 12 gauge wiring in a commercial application.

Is that a federal NEC requirement? Or is it a state rule?

 

[JimInPB]

NEC is part of the ICC codes. I specifically referenced Residential housing. ...

I believe that NEC is a trade name for NFPA 70, but I am not familiar with ICC codes. What are those?

 

[JimInPB]

The circuit may have a 20 amp breaker
But...

Most residencial Duplex Outlets are just rated for 15 AMP
Jim...

Some duplex outlets are rated 15 amp. Others are rated at 20 amp. Both are commonly available. Both are stocked at my local Home Depot & Lowes. 20 amp breakers are only legal on a circuit that has a 20 amp receptacle and minimum AWG 12 wire.

 

[Rick Webb]

I'd be very surprised if you could actually pull 50 amps out of a stanchion in most marinas.

Maybe if you are the first slip with new wiring.

 

[uncledom]

Is that a federal NEC requirement? Or is it a state rule?

NEC is the National Electrical Code and is the bare minimum you are allow to comply to when building. States can be more stringent.

 

[JamesG161]

not familiar with ICC codes. What are those?

ICC is the most used codes for construction. Codes are NOT laws, unless local jurisdictions adopts them into Law.
https://www.iccsafe.org
I am a Professional Member of the ICC. That means I can propose new codes or changes to them.
NEC is the same. It is NOT law unless adopted.
You would call your local permitting office and ask "What code are you using?" to know for sure.

If, say a City or County adopts the ICC they also adopt the NEC. This way there is no overlap or duplication.
So for landlubber electrical , refer to NEC codes.
Jim...

PS: Shore power is NEC, your boat should be ABYC code. They do match up!

 

[Scott T-Bird]

I believe that NEC is a trade name for NFPA 70, but I am not familiar with ICC codes. What are those?

I think James is referencing ICC International Code Council which is the family of international codes. We more typically reference IBC (International Building Code) and IRC (International Residential Code) for the actual code books.

 

[Scott T-Bird]

14 gauge wiring is now illegal by the ICC codes in residential housing. You can't even use it as the "traveler wire" on a 3 way 100 watt ceiling light.
Jim...

What? I've not heard that. What IBC issue did that? We're on IBC 2015 in NJ.

 

[JamesG161]

I may be wrong about this, but IBC, IRC and Southern Building codes all merged under the New Name ICC.
I remember there was kind of a war, as they sorted out the differences. The IBC is has still maintained it Identity but the codes are about the same now.
In NJ, I was shocked to see the Sandy damage, since we have Hurricane standards here, still under the new ICC too.
But here is the kicker...
In NJ they let them rebuild like they were, and not to the new standards. FEMA would normally step in and force the new standard for Flood Insurance reasons.
BTW I used to live in Delaware, so this in not a knock on NJ. Nobody knocks someone from NJ.
Jim...

 

[JamesG161]

These Codes makers make $$$ selling their codes to jurisdictions. They make more $$ selling them to me.
That is why they have separate names, yet are starting to have the same or more uniform codes "internationally".
Jim...

 

[JimInPB]

...
NEC is the same. It is NOT law unless adopted...

PS: Shore power is NEC, your boat should be ABYC code. They do match up!

It was my understanding that NFPA 70 (NEC) was the law across the entire US & NFPA 303 was also law for marinas & some types of similar marine facilities. Is this not correct?

It is also my understanding that ABYC issues standards & many of those standards have been codified into law for work done on ships. At this time I am unclear if ABYC standards are required by law for work done on privately owned boats or if they are just suggest proper practices on private boats.

It has been my experience that NEC & ABYC don't really match up that well. Color codes seem different. Ampacity tables are very different. Termination requirements seem different. Etc.

 

[JimInPB]

NEC is the National Electrical Code and is the bare minimum you are allow to comply to when building. States can be more stringent.

Yes, I agree with the statement above.

My question was about your assertion that 14 ga wire was no longer allowed in commercial buildings. I was asking where that particular prohibition against 14ga originated. Is that prohibition a state regulation? or is that prohibition part of the NEC?

 

[JamesG161]

That was my knowledge using ICC since 2003. Please review what I said, about 14 gauge wire in my post #21 above.
Jim...

 

[uncledom]

Yes, I agree with the statement above.

My question was about your assertion that 14 ga wire was no longer allowed in commercial buildings. I was asking where that particular prohibition against 14ga originated. Is that prohibition a state regulation? or is that prohibition part of the NEC?

Jim, I'm not sure. I know for decades in NJ you could not wire outlets in a commercial building with anything less than 12 gauge wire. Residential wiring requires the bathrooms to be on a 20 Amp circuit and wired with 12 gauge wire to a GFCI outlet. Your counter top outlets must be 20 Amp GFCI protected and your dining room outlets need to be 20 Amp. I do know that many jurisdictions, meaning towns in different states, do not always run on the most current code. They review and adopt by what ever method but I know of a few that are 2 NEC code books behind.

 

[JimInPB]

Fair enough. I find myself in the same situation sometimes. For instance, I remember that on motor control circuits you aren't allowed to run anything hotter than 120vac though the pilot buttons, but I can't remember for the life of me, where to find that actual regulation in writing.

 

[jviss]

You know, I hesitated to wade into this topic, but there's just so much bad information here I can't resist. As for my credentials, I'm not an electrician or code expert, but I'm an electrical engineer, and have convinced inspectors to issue permits to me. But that's not really important, common sense is.

The rating of a "feed," a marina outlet, for example, which is really just a branch circuit, is the rating of the breaker feeding the branch to protect the wire coming from the breaker to the receptacle. Period. A 50A circuit is rated to supply up to 50A before the breaker trips, and the wire from the breaker to the receptacle is rated to support this. Your 30A rated boat circuit, via an adapter pigtail connected to a 50A receptacle, doesn't "know" it's connected to a higher rated outlet, and doesn't care. Your boat is supposed to be protected against currents that could damage it and your shore power cord in the event of a fault, and should have input breakers appropriately sized. Your boat will draw the same current connected to a 50A outlet as to a 30A outlet if it's a 30A rated boat circuit and there are no faults. If there is a fault, your boat's input breaker will trip.

Adapter pigtails are safe, convenient, and available from most major boat electrical equipment companies, Marinco, for example. Don't hesitate to carry one on board and use it if you are a frequent "docker." (We anchor out, and even so, carry a 50A to 30A pigtail, 30A shore power cord, and even a 15A to 30A pigtail so we can plug into NEMA 5-15R receptacles if that's all that's available. (The conventional 15A household receptacle: this will also plug into a 20A outlet, NEMA 5-20R. As long as you don't draw more than the branch circuit provides, you will be fine.) So, the marina's branch circuit breaker protects their circuit from breaker to receptacle; your boat's input breaker protects your boat's AC input wiring, including your shore power cord.

That said, I'm open to hearing a substantiated argument for why this isn't so, or safe. I know I can learn something new every day, and I'm all ears.

 

[justsomeguy]

Your boat will draw the same current connected to a 50A outlet as to a 30A outlet if it's a 30A rated boat circuit and there are no faults. If there is a fault, your boat's input breaker will trip.

Wondered when this would get posted.