Self Tailing Winch

justsomeguy · Feb 6, 2016

mmhamer said:
Please don’t tell me that’s what the cleat is for right next to it.

[shrugs shoulders] Okay, then.

Kings Gambit · Feb 6, 2016

mmhamer said:
The winches for the headsail on my Hunter 23.5 are not self tailing.
How do you keep the sheet from easing around the winch, when it’s in hard?
Please don’t tell me that’s what the cleat is for right next to it.

If you're not going to cleat it, then you have to retain your hold on it. There are devices, however, that can adapt the winch to function as a self-tailing one. The one pictured below (i.e., the rubber donuts) can be found at the link below. I used these rubber adapters on the sheet winches of my Pearson 30 years ago. They work for self tailing and the groove is a functional "locking mechanism", but I always cleated the tail after getting the trim I wanted unless short tacking.

http://www.bartonmarine.com/products-winches-and-winchers.asp

Fred · Feb 6, 2016

On my H26 the cleats beside the winch have a jam feature under one of the horns ( don't know the technical term for this type of cleat) This allows me simply to wind the sheet around it once or twice without an overlay loop. This simplifies it to a one handed operation. Not ideal but it works. I would prefer a clam cleat arrangement.

Kings Gambit · Feb 6, 2016

Fred said:
On my H26 the cleats beside the winch have a jam feature under one of the horns ( don't know the technical term for this type of cleat) This allows me simply to wind the sheet around it once or twice without an overlay loop. This simplifies it to a one handed operation. Not ideal but it works. I would prefer a clam cleat arrangement.

It's called a "jam cleat."

Stu Jackson · Feb 6, 2016

Kings Gambit said:
and the groove is a functional "locking mechanism"

Good idea about the Winchers, I used them very successfully on our C25 for the years between 87 and 98.

However, this comment, oft repeated, is just plain wrong.

Those grooves do NOTHING. If you view the picture posted, the line winds up beneath the lip and stays there. I never had cleats and never had to tie the end of the line off on anything.

I highly recommend the Winchers, just RTFM (Brian, F stands for funny) and use them properly.

Stu Jackson · Feb 6, 2016

Kings Gambit said:
It's called a "jam cleat."

Worst things known to man.

1. Don't work as well as a standard horn cleat

2. Lines can get jammed in the jam part, making your day go downhill rapidly if you NEED to release a line.

I recommend replacing them with standard horn cleats. If you can't operate a standard horn cleat, a jam cleat ain't gonna help.

Kings Gambit · Feb 6, 2016

Stu Jackson said:
Good idea about the Winchers, I used them very successfully on our C25 for the years between 87 and 98.

However, this comment, oft repeated, is just plain wrong.

Those grooves do NOTHING. If you view the picture posted, the line winds up beneath the lip and stays there. I never had cleats and never had to tie the end of the line off on anything.

I highly recommend the Winchers, just RTFM (Brian, F stands for funny) and use them properly.

Stu,
From the website at the link posted:
"Cleating...
To cleat, lock sheet into ribbed groove."

Not that I ever used it that way myself-- but it's evidently a function of the design.

justsomeguy · Feb 6, 2016

Loves me my jam cleats. A flick of the wrist is about all it takes to release them, provided your sheets are correctly sized for the cleat, or vice-versa.

Roland5048 · Feb 6, 2016

justsomeguy said:
Loves me my jam cleats. A flick of the wrist is about all it takes to release them, provided your sheets are correctly sized for the cleat, or vice-versa.

I'll second that. Never had a problem with mine. Of course, you should never use them as dock cleats or for securing an anchor rode, tender painter, or in any situation where you are going to leave the line tied for any good length of time.

Stu Jackson · Feb 6, 2016

Kings Gambit said:
Stu,
From the website at the link posted:
"Cleating...
To cleat, lock sheet into ribbed groove."

Not that I ever used it that way myself-- but it's evidently a function of the design.

KG, I understand and have seen that a gazillion times.

It's STILL just wrong. It's not how they work or are supposed to work. The text, IIRC, is wrong, too.

They are still a great addition for the OP.

Stu Jackson · Feb 6, 2016

mmhamer said:
If anyone has mounting a Cam Cleat, where and how would be appreciated.

This might be difficult if it's on the coachroof, since you don't have a lot of room to mount the cam with the line coming off the top of the winch.

For $40 or so you could get a Wincher and be done with the issue.

Oftentimes small boat techniques don't transfer to you new BIG boat.

Stu Jackson · Feb 6, 2016

Roland5048 said:
I'll second that. Never had a problem with mine. Of course, you should never use them as dock cleats or for securing an anchor rode, tender painter, or in any situation where you are going to leave the line tied for any good length of time.

...or in any situation where you are going to need to use the line in a hurry if it's jammed in the damned jam cleat.

There, fixed it for ya!

Roland5048 · Feb 6, 2016

Stu, I've never had one jam in a jam cleat but I have had them jam in a cam cleat.

justsomeguy · Feb 6, 2016

Apparently, Stu was deeply disturbed by a jam cleat in the past.

It's the only reason I can come up with.

Johnb · Feb 6, 2016

When my wife was taking sailing lessons students failed the test if they failed to either cleat off and remove the handle after winching for concerns about safety. (pawl fails in the winch and it turns into a wacking machine). After being corrected enough times I have got into the habit of following those rules.

Joe · Feb 6, 2016

I can't believe some of you guys are promoting "winchers" as a jib sheet solution. First of all, they don't turn your standard winch into a self tailing device.... they just don't.... you load up the drum and the underside of the donut will grip the line.... but you still have to strip the line off manually ... so for a sheeting application they are entirely useless without two hands because there is no stripper. The other negative for sheet work is that you MUST load up the drum with maximum wraps for them to even grip the line. Maximum number of wraps is unnecessary on normal sailing days. Then when you want to throw off the sheet quickly on a tack, by pulling straight up on the tail, the rubber thingy will get in the way of a smooth movement. Again.. for a single hander this is a nuisance.

When I had those things I put them on my halyard winches to help me tweek the last few inches.... but the only think they were actually handy for was the circular cleat feature, as pictured above. It held fine... but I still had to grind and strip with both hands. It finally got rid of them when I installed clutches.... gave them to a neighbor... then he saw my cool garhauer clutches and did the same thing....except he cut his off when he got frustrated trying to remove them.

Bottom line..... NO GOOD on sheet winches, partially useful on halyard winches-as a cleat, not self tailing- .... and.... they're ugly... at least make them black.

Finally... the secret to safe and efficient sheeting is to install whatever cleat you choose at the proper angle.... and of course... a sheet winch cleat should never have a captive line device such as a fairlead. So... NO clutches or power cleats around the sheet winch. On my boat I have open cam cleats on risers... so they align with the middle of the drum.
If you have self tailing primaries ignore all this, you just use the winch cap's cleat.

Earendil · Feb 6, 2016

I'm interested in this conversation about "Winchers." I have an O'Day 23, and do a lot of single-handed sailing (season three coming up). I sort of got laughed out of another forum when I asked about self-tailing winches -- folks seemed to feel a boat that small didn't need self-tailing winches, but when you are out alone there are lots of things that can help. So, about those Barton "Winchers"....

Not sure I understand Stu's comments. He used them successfully for years, and recommends them. Others seem to recommend them, too. But if the grooves "do NOTHING," as Stu says, what are they for and why did he use this product successfully? And what did he do with the sheets, if he didn't cleat them or tie them off on anything?

And what do "RTFM" and "IIRC" mean? Pardon my ignorance

EDIT: Oops, just saw Joe's post. Seems to poo-poo this product...

Earendil · Feb 6, 2016

Thanks, Joe. Helpful and informative product critique.

Self Tailing Winch

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