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Selden-Driving me nuts

Discussion in 'Big Boats' started by Tucsonsailor, Dec 5, 2017. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. Tucsonsailor

    Tucsonsailor

    Joined Sep 24, 2017
    22 posts, 1 likes
    Hunter 380
    US Alameda Alameda
    All assistance would be appreciated with this issue.
    I appear to be getting no help, guidance or advice from Selden on an ongoing in- mast mainsail issue.
    Two weeks ago I unfurled my sail at the dock with no wind. Came out fine. I have been having all kinds of issues with furling and unfurling and have spent a signficant amount of money with my rigger who is a Selden authorized rigger and my sail loft, flattening the sail and doing all the right things to make my in mast work at least comfortably.
    I furled the sail back up at the dock, under the right outhaul tension, with no wind and had nothing to do but take my time and do it right.
    Since then it will not come out. It took my rigger 5 hours to pull it out and he discovered that the rivets inside the foil are hanging out and torqued allowing the sail to catch and create an internal furling problem. Additionally the halyard will not come down the right way because the internal rivets have seaparted and the two part foil is no longer lined up.
    I have tried to call Selden but getting anyone to speak to if you are not a dealer seems nearly impossible. You call their number in Carolina and they don't even allow you to speak to a customer service person unless you are a dealer. Maybe they have too many upset customers.
    Anyway, there seems to be many people on many posts that have trouble with their in mast systems. I would think that some engineer would have by now built some wider window of operation with the inmast furling. It seems that if you don't have you boom just right, and you don't tension your outhaul just right and stand on your left foot while holding your ear that your going to have a problem with your furling system. Well, that's not the way headsail furling works; very forgiving and does not increase your level of anxiety like the infurl system does. We are not sure from one sail to the next whether our sail will furl out or once we get it out whether it will go back in. I'm sure I'm not alone here! Well Selden, where is your technical service? Hiding behind a bunch of numbers you can't get to? My rigger who is certified by Selden is shaking his head over this one and has as much trouble in communicating with Selden as I am. Unless I'm missing something, Selden should be ashamed of themselves as an organization. Little or no service after the sale? Even if you are willing to pay to get it right? I've been sailing for 35 years on all kinds of sailboats. One thing I know for sure....never had this kind of trouble with a hanked up sail. Help assistance and comments would be appreciated as always.
     


  2. Meriachee

    Meriachee

    Joined Aug 1, 2011
    2,013 posts, 398 likes
    Catalina 270
    CA Edmonton, Ab Wabamun - on the orange ball
    It seems that if your rigger is "authorized", then this person should be the one to be placing the call on your behalf.
     


  3. SG

    SG

    Joined Feb 11, 2017
    608 posts, 80 likes
    J/Boat J/160
    US Annapolis
    Have you written an objective, fact-filled letter to the CEO of Seldon describing the sequence of events from beginning of time?

    P.S. - You don't need to threaten in the first letter. You can simply state that you were relying on their otherwise good name and representations of their dealer. You would like Seldon to rectify the situation.
     


  4. Tucsonsailor

    Tucsonsailor

    Joined Sep 24, 2017
    22 posts, 1 likes
    Hunter 380
    US Alameda Alameda
    Trying to find the CEO and other executives names. If you have any please let me know

    Thanks,
     


  5. Tucsonsailor

    Tucsonsailor

    Joined Sep 24, 2017
    22 posts, 1 likes
    Hunter 380
    US Alameda Alameda
    My rigger is listed and authorized by Selden as well as has been trained by Selden. He is as frustrated as I am with them and has had many of the same issues with not only my situation but others he has encountered. If Selden was as prompt and professional as my rigger, I would not have any issues.
     


  6. Meriachee

    Meriachee

    Joined Aug 1, 2011
    2,013 posts, 398 likes
    Catalina 270
    CA Edmonton, Ab Wabamun - on the orange ball
    Bashing Selden in a public forum isn't going to resolve the matter, any more than (with all due respect) yanking on the sail when you know the foil is busted will fix it. It would seem now that the path is to extricate the foil from the mast, assess and repair the damage. If there is consideration from Selden after the fact, then post repair would be the time to pursue it, unless the system is under warranty, which is a different scenario.
     


  7. kloudie1

    kloudie1

    Joined Nov 6, 2006
    7,431 posts, 336 likes
    Hunter 34
    US Mandeville Louisiana
    Document the repair with pictures too..
     


  8. SG

    SG

    Joined Feb 11, 2017
    608 posts, 80 likes
    J/Boat J/160
    US Annapolis
    I was under the impression that you had replaced a rig and the mast was new. Maybe a very self-induced flawed assumption. SO...

    How old is the spar? Was it OEM? Are the purchaser? Etc.???
     


  9. artboas

    artboas

    Joined Jun 1, 2009
    1,030 posts, 37 likes
    Hunter 49
    ca toronto
    I have found Selden to be a highly professional firm that makes an excellent product.
    The guy who knows everything. Is Tom Sharkey. I can guarantee you that he can find the solution.
    Respectfully, I think you are being a little "strong-worded" in your approach. In all of my correspondence, they have been totally responsive.
     


    Rick486 likes this.
  10. Will Gilmore

    Will Gilmore

    Joined Oct 19, 2017
    588 posts, 147 likes
    O'Day 19
    US Littleton, NH Littleton, NH
    Are you the original purchaser of this system from Selden?
    The letter is a good idea. Also, there is probably a Seldon dealer interested in building a relationship with a potential buyer of Seldon Systems that he might be talked into going to the company for you.
    I don't have any knowledge of Seldon products but, I do know that some companies only provide service through their dealers, preferring, instead, to have customers interact with them.
    From the Seldon Web site:
    PRODUCT RECALLS


    For product recall regarding 517-914, please fill in the online registration.



    PLEASE NOTE: If your forestay fitting is marked with 517-914-A you already have the improved version and there is no need for a replacement.

    Attached is their general conditions of sale:
    I hope you are able to work things out. Their Web site has a world wide map of dealers, I'm sure you can go tho the nearest one and work through them.
    - Will (Dragonfly)
     

    Attached Files:



  11. M_Michaels

    M_Michaels

    Joined Feb 17, 2013
    33 posts, 1 likes
    Hunter 380
    US Port Clinton, Ohio Port Clinton, Ohio
    I have a Hunter 380 and have only had one issue with my selden in mast furler. I did not hold adequate pressure on the outhaul when furling. The sail wrinkled and I had a jam when trying to pull it out. Plus, I had the original (year 2000) sail. I had a new sail made by a well respected sailmaker in Toledo, Ohio. My new sail furls and unfurls like a dream. I have a Milwaukee right angle drill with a winch bit. Pull the trigger on slight starboard tack and the sail disappears. I did get my mast tuned (straightened a bit) to improve the furling. Plus I had a new furling line installed. I suggest you try a different rigger.
     


  12. Tucsonsailor

    Tucsonsailor

    Joined Sep 24, 2017
    22 posts, 1 likes
    Hunter 380
    US Alameda Alameda
    While under normal circumstances you would be correct a company that passes all customer service issues off to their dealer network and provides no direct support to their end users is not an acceptable method to do business. It
    Hi:
    I appreciate your sentiments on Selden however, when you call their only number in South Carolina, it gives you two choices (a) Are you a dealer or reseller or (b)Are you a vesssel owner. When you press that you are a vessel owner it tells you to contact their dealer network. No one inside, no technical assistance number and no way to find out there is a guy named Tom Sharkey! I am tough on them because I work for a manufacturer and we as an organization do not palm all of our problems off to our dealer network, we address them as a manufacturer. If you could tell me how to get though to a Tom Sharkey or anyone else knowledgeable on their phone line that would be great, however, and with all respect, they deserve to have contact and support of their end user base. I am sure you have read, as I in many posts the frustrations with in-mast furling systems specifically Selden. I do however appreciate the contact and will try to reach out to him.
     


  13. Tucsonsailor

    Tucsonsailor

    Joined Sep 24, 2017
    22 posts, 1 likes
    Hunter 380
    US Alameda Alameda
    Hi Spar is original on a 2000 Hunter 380 with a flattened sail. To the best of my knowledge the furling system was in good shape prior to me purchasing the boat and I have had my rigger working on making it better since the purchase ie: thinner diameter Dyneema line for the outhaul, and Dyneema line as well on the halyard line as to allow no stretch. Bottom line is that a furler, in my opinion should not be engineered to be that finicky. My headsail is certainly not, and they should be build with some level of "failsafe" built in. This obviously is not the case.
     


  14. Tucsonsailor

    Tucsonsailor

    Joined Sep 24, 2017
    22 posts, 1 likes
    Hunter 380
    US Alameda Alameda
    While I appreciate your perspective, a company that provides no support or service to their end user and puts issues off to their dealer network needs to be bashed. We have all paid a lot of money for their products and, as well, servicing their products for years. As I mentioned in another post, I work for a manufacturer, we handle issues that relate to the integrity of our products, We have a dealer network to distribute our products, but when it comes to the integrity of our products in the market, my organization owns that responsibility, as they are the true stakeholders of the product, not the dealers. This is not an issue of money to solve the problem, this is an issue of support. I am sitting at my dock with no mansail no answers and no furling system that works.....as far as my rigger, he is as frustrated as I am, Hence, the need for the manufacturer to be involved.
     


  15. Tucsonsailor

    Tucsonsailor

    Joined Sep 24, 2017
    22 posts, 1 likes
    Hunter 380
    US Alameda Alameda
    Hi:

    I am glad you worked your concerns out. I love my boat but the furling system has been less than dependable to say the least. The interior of the furling system now has rivets hanging from the posts and the mast needs to be taken down and the foil repaired or replaced. Not what I call ideal. I also, like you have my main at my sailmaker to see what he can do to marry the sail to the foil in terms of flatness and entry into the slot. I will keep you in the loop and appreciate your comments. I think your approach was right on!
     


  16. artboas

    artboas

    Joined Jun 1, 2009
    1,030 posts, 37 likes
    Hunter 49
    ca toronto
    I have found that the causes of failure on a furling rig can usually be traced back to someone over-stressing it.
    Perhaps the PO of your boat dud this, and you are not aware.
    By over-stressing, I mean that people put the out haul or the reefing line on a winch, and crank on something which is jammed.
    Power winches have destroyed lots of furling rigs this way.
    Best of luck with the repairs. As mentioned, I've always found Selden and Tom Sharkey to be highly professional.
     


  17. dakno

    dakno

    Joined Jun 22, 2009
    73 posts, 0 likes
    Hunter 41DS
    US new orleans
    Sorry you are having issues with your mast/sail. Their is a absolute learning curve with a furling main and I certainly have been self educated with my Selden rig. However, looking back all of the problems I have had have been because of poor maintenance and ..technique. The top and bottom spinners have to be lubricated annually, the sail has to be furled properly, the full length battens can really cause damage if the sail is not furled properly. If the battens are not absolutely parallel to the sail slot as they exit/enter the mast you are in for a load of trouble. It sounds to me that your sail/foil was over tensioned attempting to furl/unfurl with the battens twisting around the foil damaging the rivets that hold it together. You will have to drop the rig to remove and repair the foil. After I made numerous errors and getting a new batteness sail for my 08 boat I am finally able to enjoy the furling system without having panic attacks.
     


  18. Jim 5757

    Jim 5757

    Joined Jun 19, 2004
    308 posts, 18 likes
    Morgan M28 O/I
    US The Jersey Shore Ocean Gate, NJ
    Tucsonsailor:
    Not to beat you up or anything, and I don't know anything about in-mast furlers other than what I have read on these forums, but in your posts to date, you have mentioned a couple of interesting facts that may be important:
    1)..."It took my rigger 5 hours to pull it out and he discovered that the rivets inside the foil are hanging out and torqued allowing the sail to catch and create an internal furling problem."
    2) "...To the best of my knowledge the furling system was in good shape prior to me purchasing the boat...".

    So anyway, MAYBE those rivets were starting to come loose before you got the boat and it's just been getting worse since then? And if that's the case, maybe that's all that needs to be resolved. And to Dakno's post (above), I can't see how you can hold the manufacturer responsible - do they have an unlimited lifetime warranty???

    Just sayin...
     


  19. Meriachee

    Meriachee

    Joined Aug 1, 2011
    2,013 posts, 398 likes
    Catalina 270
    CA Edmonton, Ab Wabamun - on the orange ball
    If your rigger is trained and properly certified by Selden, then this individual should have the skills to resolve the matter. As a downstream representative for a manufacturer, my techs have to be trained and certified, and it’s not a normal circumstance that we go back to the manufacturer. I wonder why your rigger can’t put forth a resolution plan when there are people here who are clearly seeing through what’s happened and haven’t even laid eyes on the boat. It’s a little odd.
     


  20. Solarfy

    Solarfy

    Joined Jul 26, 2016
    80 posts, 11 likes
    American Sail 18
    US Granada Hills, California MDR
    Pretty redundant thread. They keep telling the op to talk to Selden. The Op cannot talk the Selden Because Selden does not anwer phone for consumers. Not hard to understand. It's the Chinese model.
     


    Will Gilmore likes this.

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