Seems all nav lights are NOT created equal

Oct 2, 2008
3,807
Pearson/ 530 Strafford, NH
Maybe sailors were buying lights that didn’t have enough angle whenever they heel over. I’ve seen a few that didn’t show until I was about 1/4 mile away. I thought “Maybe overloaded so I couldn’t see the stern light when overtaking.”
 
Jan 5, 2017
2,263
Beneteau First 38 Lyall Harbour Saturna Island
That's something I've never thought about. We don't do many overnights, but I'm not even sure how I'd check that without a lot of help. @JRacer maybe that's why newer designs sail flat but it takes the fun out of us older designs.
 

Rick D

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Jun 14, 2008
7,131
Hunter Legend 40.5 Shoreline Marina Long Beach CA
Huh. New one for me. Went to Perko and found compliance language but nothing regarding beam angle nor sail/power.
 
May 20, 2016
3,014
Catalina 36 MK1 94 Everett, WA
MarineBeam also doest say anything about this. But try sending orders of magnitude brighter than my old aqua signals
 
Dec 2, 2003
751
Hunter 260 winnipeg, Manitoba
I believe that nav lights that are suitable for sailboats are also suitable for all power boats of a similar length but the reverse is not true. If the fixture is not listed specifically for sailboats it is likely only suitable for power boats. Had a look at perko catalog here:

https://www.perko.com/images/catalog/catalog_320_pdf/cat320.pdf

And at aqua signal and they both state various fixtures are for power boat or they are for power&sail.

On marine beam site in written descriptions of several of their fixtures they specifically mention for sailing vessels. On others there is no mention - I would assume those fixtures are for power only.
 
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Jun 25, 2004
1,108
Corsair F24 Mk1 003 San Francisco Bay, CA
Has anybody found a written regulation from the USCG about this?
Judy B.
 
Oct 19, 2017
7,732
O'Day 19 Littleton, NH
I bought a set of lights for my Mariner 19 and have been thinking about how and where to mount them such that they remain visible while heeling and the jib set. Either the top of the mast or the bow. Our schooner had the lights mounted on the cabin trunk. That meant they weren't visible when heeled more than about 8 degrees anyhow. Placement is terribly important, but I hadn't thought to check the limitations of the light itself.
Has anybody found a written regulation from the USCG about this?
Judy B.
From JD's posted PDF: "Annex I (COLREGs section 10 and Inland 33 C.F.R. part 84.16 “Vertical sectors”) prescribes the degrees and intensities that navigation lights must meet on the vertical plane."
I found it on page 122 of the USCG Navigation Rules and Regulation Handbook,
"10. Vertical sectors
(a)
The vertical sectors of electric lights as fitted, with the exception of lights
on sailing vessels underway, shall ensure that:
(i)
at least the required minimum intensity is maintained at all angles from
5° above to 5° below the horizontal;
(ii)
at least 60% of the required minimum intensity is maintained from 7.5°
above to 7.5° below the horizontal.
(b)
In the case of sailing vessels underway the vertical sectors of electric lights
as fitted shall ensure that:
(i)
at least the required minimum intensity is maintained at all angles from
5° above to 5° below the horizontal;
(ii)
at least 50% of the required minimum intensity is maintained from 25°
above to 25° below the horizontal.
(c)
In the case of lights other than electric these specifications shall be met as
closely as possible."

-Will (Dragonfly)
 
Nov 6, 2006
9,884
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
Interesting.. Had never heard that before.. I did look up Colregs Annex 1 and found the rule stated in Section 10 .. The USCG safety publication graphically shows what Section 10 states..
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,665
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
I'm glad this was posted. I was just about to order this bow light.

Homyl Marine Boat Yacht 2W 12V 24V LED Bow Navigation Lights Red & Green Lens https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07G464WPM/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_taa_WbnKCb9HC3XY7

The listing doesn't state sail anywhere.
Please only purchase navigation lighting that has been tested and has passed USCG certification testing or one that has been tested to ABYC A-16. Beyond the certification the nav lights should meet the requirements for being used on a sailing vessel. These days there are is a plethora of cheap Chinese "lights" calling themselves "navigation lights", that have never, ever been tested for compliance.

If a navigation lights only says "2 mile" etc., and lacks USCG compliance testing or ABYC A-16 certified testing walk away. I think too many boat owners fail to realize that we are required by Federal law to have navigation lights that meet the Federal law requirements. The only way to know if they do is if they have been tested for USCG or ABYC A-16 compliance.

It will look like this:

or
 
Aug 13, 2012
533
Catalina 270 Ottawa
I believe that nav lights that are suitable for sailboats are also suitable for all power boats of a similar length ...
Not exactly. The powerboat lights have to provide at least 60% intensity from 5 deg to 7.5 deg above and below horizontal plane. The sailboat lights have to provide at least 50% above and below 5 degrees (all the way to 25 deg). This means that at the minimum level of compliance, the sailboat light could provide just 50% intensity between 5 and 7.5 degrees, but it would not be sufficient for a motorboat (that requires "at least 60% intensity").
 
Sep 20, 2014
1,320
Rob Legg RL24 Chain O'Lakes
I've always felt the navigational light requirements were too minimalistic to be practical. At distance, all the light washes together. While the light can be seen, the surface area is so small, you can't distinguish color or even judge distance. I don't know if that is an LED issue, or just the nature of light at distance.
 
Sep 20, 2014
1,320
Rob Legg RL24 Chain O'Lakes
Please only purchase navigation lighting that has been tested and has passed USCG certification testing or one that has been tested to ABYC A-16. Beyond the certification the nav lights should meet the requirements for being used on a sailing vessel. These days there are is a plethora of cheap Chinese "lights" calling themselves "navigation lights", that have never, ever been tested for compliance.

If a navigation lights only says "2 mile" etc., and lacks USCG compliance testing or ABYC A-16 certified testing walk away. I think too many boat owners fail to realize that we are required by Federal law to have navigation lights that meet the Federal law requirements. The only way to know if they do is if they have been tested for USCG or ABYC A-16 compliance
The only way to know is to test it yourself. Lying is common on imported products.
 
Oct 22, 2014
20,989
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
Lying is common on imported products
Say it is not so. With all the positive comparisons of foreign manufacturers being better to hear that marketing liberties are taken shatters the illusion.
 
Nov 1, 2017
635
Catalina 25 Sea Star Base Galveston, TX
Pretty sure the Coasties won't be checking this upon inspection, but it's definitely good to know, and makes perfect sense. Another thing to keep in mind is that sailboats are also a bit wider at the beam, making it difficult to ensure the sight of bow lights if the boat is seen at a certain angle from astern. This isn't a huge issue, as most sailors would typically see the stern light and nothing else, and think, "Oh, we're behind them. Maybe not directly, but behind them nonetheless."
 
Feb 6, 1998
11,665
Canadian Sailcraft 36T Casco Bay, ME
The only way to know is to test it yourself. Lying is common on imported products.
How are you going to test it yourself is the real question?

What if there's a night-time accident and someone is killed, like my good friends Kim's father was? How will your defense team defend you when the guy who killed a loved one is claiming you did not have legal or legally displayed navigation lighting? This was basically what happened in Kim's fathers case, and they won that portion of the trial, because Kim's dad did have his nav lights on and they were legal/legit nav lights. This is not a made up case, it was real, and it still hurts to this day. Her dad was way too young to be run over by a drunk. If they had lost the nav light portion of that trial it is very likely the guy would have walked off with barely a scolding. Instead he at least did a bit of jail time.
 
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Nov 1, 2017
635
Catalina 25 Sea Star Base Galveston, TX
I've always felt the navigational light requirements were too minimalistic to be practical. At distance, all the light washes together. While the light can be seen, the surface area is so small, you can't distinguish color or even judge distance. I don't know if that is an LED issue, or just the nature of light at distance.
While this is true, knowing the position of a boat from a mile away doesn't really matter too much (at least, not to me). Now, for a commercial vessel with a three mile turning radius...
How are you going to test it yourself is the real question?
"Alright, Jimmy, you just hop on the boom there and we're gonna swing ya out and kick the boat over."
"Okay, Billy, sounds like a plan."
*kick*
"Alright, now what?"
"We wait till it gets dark, imma row over yonder 'bout a mile and a half and see if I can see the lights."
"How long this gon' take?"
"Ohhh, prolly 'bout four hours."
"Ugh...do I get beer after this?"
"Yes, Jimmy, beer is to be had after the test."
*thumbs up from both rednecks as Billy starts rowing away*
*sigh from Jimmy*
 
Oct 9, 2008
1,739
Bristol 29.9 Dana Point
Related side topic:
These are pics of the same model boat. Two 1978 versions, with the nav lights on the deck.
Next is a 1984 version, with the lights up on the pulpit rails, and larger fixtures with 25 watt (now LED's) bayonet bulbs.
Don't know if they did it due to compliance issues or not. But there are other examples of mfg relocating nav lights on later versions.

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