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Seaward vs. Catalina vs. ??

Discussion in 'Ask All Sailors' started by catalanc, Jul 10, 2018. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. catalanc

    catalanc

    Joined Mar 23, 2015
    154 posts, 31 likes
    Catalina 22 MK-II
    US Dillon, CO
    Hi guys,
    I am a truly beginning sailor sailing on Lake Dillon, CO. Winds can go from zero to 35 in minutes and I have already been involved in two bad situations. No matter, press on. I have a Catalina 22 MK II which is perfect for my learning curve. That said, I really like the layout of the Catalina 250 and the Seaward 22 is beautiful; there is a possibility that one or both may be available by seasons end. I do not race and am mainly trying to learn to sail without killing myself. SO ... anyone have any feelings about either of the above boats, or another that would be good for someone in my position? Just curious.
    cec
     


  2. nightowle

    nightowle

    Joined Aug 28, 2006
    243 posts, 36 likes
    Bavaria 35E
    US seattle
    For Dillon, I'd go with the one that has the best condition sails, standing and running rigging.
     


    Will Gilmore and rgranger like this.
  3. rgranger

    rgranger

    Joined Jan 19, 2010
    5,162 posts, 1,014 likes
    Hunter 26
    US Smith Mountain Lake
    :plus:

    There are a lot of standard actions one should take to keep the boat safe in 35 wind but one that is often overlooked is to keep the boat moving forward. A boat that is moving forward is comfortable and slices through the chop instead of being thrown around by it. Good sails with multiple reef points in the main is important. If you have hanked on head sails, go for the boat that has multiple head sails, (a storm jib).
     


    Gene Neill, Parsons and Will Gilmore like this.
  4. Will Gilmore

    Will Gilmore

    Joined Oct 19, 2017
    2,966 posts, 1,314 likes
    O'Day 19
    US Littleton, NH
    Rgranger has it right. For a sailboat, forward propulsion is everything. There is no control in a boat that has lost her sail power.
    Any boat in your size range will perform well for you when in good shape. Stay within your price range and remember, the purchase price is not the only cost. Sailing is an awesome sport, but you have to understand the upkeep costs too. It isn't just about esthetics, it's a safety issue, as well. I think it is all part of the fun, the planning, engineering, the diy and creativity. It all gives me a sense of independence that power boating doesn't provide.
    Now, to your question, I particularly like the Seaward design for shallow water cruising.

    - Will (Dragonfly)
     


    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  5. catalanc

    catalanc

    Joined Mar 23, 2015
    154 posts, 31 likes
    Catalina 22 MK-II
    US Dillon, CO
    Thanks for the replies, but perhaps I should clarify. Logically I should stick with the catalina 22 MKII since it actually fulfills all my needs. Probably could use new sails and a larger engine since the 4 hp yamaha does not provide enough power when the wind really kicks up on the lake (have trouble pointing into the wind under power). So I will be putting some $$ into her and just wondering if instead I should re-invest in a cataline 250 or a Seaward. I really like them esthetically, but do not know how they sail relative to the 22. I should mention that we moved from Seattle a couple of years ago; I had a 32' twin engine cruiser that I used to explore Puget Sound so I am not unfamiliar with boats, just the increase in line numbers beyond bow and stern lines ... :}
     


  6. rgranger

    rgranger

    Joined Jan 19, 2010
    5,162 posts, 1,014 likes
    Hunter 26
    US Smith Mountain Lake
    There are good reasons to have a larger boat... but there is also a truth about sailing that goes something like this...

    The larger the boat the less often you sail. So be certain your reasons for wanting a larger boat are justified. I've gone up, an down on boat size several times in my life. Usually a result of how we wanted to use the boat.
     


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  7. Apex

    Apex

    Joined Jun 19, 2013
    780 posts, 98 likes
    Oday 28
    US Traverse City
    There is no logic in sailing.......
     


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  8. Kermit

    Kermit

    Joined Jul 31, 2010
    4,662 posts, 1,848 likes
    Hunter 260
    US Lake Murray Sailing Club, SC
    Oh crap. Once @Will Gilmore sees this he’ll get all philosophical on us.
     


    Gene Neill, Parsons and Will Gilmore like this.
  9. catalanc

    catalanc

    Joined Mar 23, 2015
    154 posts, 31 likes
    Catalina 22 MK-II
    US Dillon, CO
    Realistically, there is no logic in boating unless you are in the Navy or fish for a living ... and I'm OK with that ... :} I started out with a 18' bayliner bowrider and 5 boats later ended up with a Chaparral 32' twin engine cruiser in the PNW. Never regretted moving to a bigger boat and actually used the larger one more because it was in a slip. Here in Dillon the situation is different, sailing on a much smaller body of water so don't think a really large boat is warranted, especially since I single hand 99% of the time. As I said, the 22 is just fine for my needs but that "itch" has arrived. I really like the look and layout of the 250 and the Seaward .. very nice looking boats. Logical to buy ... no. But that's not the point!
     


    Parsons likes this.
  10. Parsons

    Parsons

    Joined Jul 12, 2011
    563 posts, 169 likes
    Catalina 36
    US Bay City, MI
    "Which girl to marry?" Isn't that what you're asking? Sail on both and figure out which one you're in love with.

    In the immortal words of Capt. Malcolm Reynolds ... "You know what the first rule of flying is? ... Love. You can learn all the math in the 'Verse, but you take a boat in the air that you don't love, she'll shake you off just as sure as the turning of the worlds. Love keeps her in the air when she oughta fall down, tells you she's hurtin' 'fore she keens. Makes her a home."

    I smile every time I walk out to the dock and see my boat.
     


  11. catalanc

    catalanc

    Joined Mar 23, 2015
    154 posts, 31 likes
    Catalina 22 MK-II
    US Dillon, CO
    Indeed, that is the point!
     


  12. Crazy Dave Condon

    Crazy Dave Condon

    Joined Jun 8, 2004
    6,583 posts, 567 likes
    -na -NA
    US Anywhere USA
    Also ask yourself do you want to overnight on a larger boat. However frankly I would not want to sail in 35 knots of wind as it is too much for all the boats mentioned having sold , sailed and worked on them as a dealer who taught customers on all three as well
    I would tell my customers to drop the sails until it was calmer if on lakes
     


    LloydB likes this.
  13. catalanc

    catalanc

    Joined Mar 23, 2015
    154 posts, 31 likes
    Catalina 22 MK-II
    US Dillon, CO
    Crazy Dave,
    I agree entirely ... but as I said, wind went from nothing to high winds in a minute or two. As for sleeping on the boat, probably not. As Parsons said ... it's just for the "smile".

    SO ... having sold all three ... how would you compare the Catalina 250 to the Seaward? I have read that the 250 "likes to sail flat" and that early reefing is a very good idea. Thoughts?
     


  14. John Tubb

    John Tubb

    Joined Feb 14, 2017
    770 posts, 172 likes
    O'Day 25
    US Guntersville, AL
    Honestly, I have very little experience also, but I have an O'Day 25 and have sailed a C22 and a S2 26' with a 4.5' wing keel so you can take that for your reference to my feedback. I know there are some great love for a C22, but it is not the boat for me and is not the boat for my family. Plus being new I did not like being on it in 15-20 guesting conditions at all. Same and worst condition on my 25 area ok, but that S2 26' with a wing keel was a lot nicer. I was talking with one of the owners of our marina this past week and he loves his 250 because it is the wing keel and a great size boat for our lake and conditions. If that 250 is nice and needs little I'd sell that C22 and jump to it. I invested in new sails and outboard this year for my O'Day 25 which was smart money for me right now. My goal is to sail as is till I find the right 30'-35' in the right condition for my needs and just be patient till it shows up.
     


    Alansails likes this.
  15. weinie

    weinie

    Joined Sep 6, 2010
    1,217 posts, 205 likes
    Jeanneau 349
    US port washington, ny
    When the wind goes 0 to 35, things are going tits up no matter what boat you're in.
    Since you're new to sailing and have a good boat now, I'd get the hang of learning on what you have until you figure out the right boat.
    And come up with a plan of what to do when the 35 knots hit.
    If it was me, I'd let the jib flog, head into the wind before waves build and get the main down asap. Then use the jib to sail down wind if you have searoom.
     


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  16. Jackdaw

    Jackdaw

    Joined Nov 8, 2010
    9,227 posts, 2,421 likes
    Beneteau First 36.7 & 260
    US Minneapolis MN & Bayfield WI
    It's important to note that the so-called 'bad situation' is caused by you being a beginner, not the boat. Any of the boats you mentioned (including your C22) can get through those conditions on a short-term basis like you see on Dillon. As your skills improve, so will your sailing comfort, AND your ability to assess for yourselves what boat will be best. Stick with it!
     


  17. Hayden Watson

    Hayden Watson

    Joined Apr 5, 2009
    545 posts, 112 likes
    Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs
    US Oak Harbor, WA
    I sure miss Serenity!
     


  18. catalanc

    catalanc

    Joined Mar 23, 2015
    154 posts, 31 likes
    Catalina 22 MK-II
    US Dillon, CO
    JackDaw ... no question whatsoever! Like I said, just curious about how the other two boats handle, just because.

    Hayden ... Serenity has passed, senility unfortunately is forthcoming ...
     


  19. Crazy Dave Condon

    Crazy Dave Condon

    Joined Jun 8, 2004
    6,583 posts, 567 likes
    -na -NA
    US Anywhere USA
    I made it a point over the years not to discus the negative points of boats but concur as a beginner like all of us were at one point, learning is the key and you will find good suggestions here. Maybe a friend or instructor would be suggested as you already have a solid boat with the Catalina 22 MK II either the swing keel or wing keel
     


    Will Gilmore likes this.
  20. Ben4195

    Ben4195

    Joined Jul 5, 2005
    57 posts, 1 likes
    Beneteau 361
    US Sandusky Harbor Marina
    Did the Catalina 250 come in a water ballast version? for some reason i'm remembering that it came in both a wing keel and water ballast version, with the wing keel version having more headroom down below. I can't speak from experience, but I have seen on various forums that water ballast boats are generally more tender.

    I owned a Catalina 25 for many years, which was the model before the Catalina 250 was introduced. going from a Catalina 22 to a larger boat may also require additional towing requirements. Bear that in mind.
     



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