ROPE/LINE Advise

Nov 9, 2012
2,500
Oday 192 Lake Nockamixon
I encourage sailing friends to downsize their cordage a bit. Using the modern high strength low stretch options it would be nice to not see those situations in which a line barely makes it through a block, won't stay in a cam cleat , over rides a winch, or runs poorly over a mast sheave, because it is too big. I also call into question the standard charts because they generally assume cordage which is cheap and larger than it needs to be. I think it's best to look at the strength needed and select cordage with the strength and stretch you need. And also account for UV resistance, float ability and other options. Yes, you can spend more but the pleasure and safety of having running rigging that runs smoothly is worth more. I know there's a lot of talk about using oversized line for the "Hand" but I think that's overblown. I'm not talking extreme here. Just a little smaller.
I agree. And there's a lot more to "hand" than line size. I swear by New England Ropes Salsa for my main and jib sheets. It may be the ugliest line ever, but it feels great in the hands, runs extremely well through blocks (Hobie 16 racers use it for mainsheet through 10:1 blocks), and it even holds round shape in cam cleats, which is highly unusual for a single braid.
 
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Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
My jib winches are Lewmar 30s, The sheets on my asymetric are too heavy, that’s a given.
They are 3/8 diameter, and I prefer not to use a single sheet. Does anybody have experience with lighter, smaller diameter sheets that will still self tail on the winches?
I used NER Regatta Braid, a single braid as my Genoa sheeting for years and it worked very well. Great hand, very flexible, sticks to a winch drum like glue and had plenty of strength. Mine were 7/16”, you could easily go with 3/8”. Think you will find that they are much easier to sheet than a double braid. I changed them out simply because after 8 years it was time, and they were picking up snags. Recommended.
 

Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
When I bought Second Star she had wire-rope halyards. I replaced them with with low stretch NER VPC. and downsized the diameter of the rope portion from 7/16 to 3/18". All was well for several years until last summer when I motorsailer to weather in 20+ knot winds. The additional load on the main halyard caused it to stretch and start slipping in the rope clutch. We'll be ordering 7/16" VPC soon
Dave; I changed over to NER VPC halyards a number of years ago to lose the abundant stretch of StaSet. That stretch gets played out across the deck, up the mast, down the mast to a reefed sail and it not good for trim or the sail, it pumps your sail set. On my boat it was a minimum of 6” to 8” stretch, loading and unloading my sail, not good. As you know, the VPC gives you a great low stretch halyard (with Polyester cover) but it also puts maximum loads on your clutches that I assume they never saw before and they have a few years of wear on them. In my second or third year of VPC I found that the main halyard started slipping in the clutch. A spinlock rebuild kit from APS fixed the problem (jaw cam and base plate) and got the job done. Suggest trying that before you give up on your current halyard. This spring I will be applying line coating to the clutching areas to better shape the line being clutched. I think that will help line clutch grip as well.
 
Jan 1, 2006
7,065
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
I agree. And there's a lot more to "hand" than line size. I swear by New England Ropes Salsa for my main and jib sheets. It may be the ugliest line ever, but it feels great in the hands, runs extremely well through blocks (Hobie 16 racers use it for mainsheet through 10:1 blocks), and it even holds round shape in cam cleats, which is highly unusual for a single braid.
I really like Salsa too.
 
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Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
I think it's best to look at the strength needed and select cordage with the strength and stretch you need.
Absolutely. Recently replaced my genoa furling line and downsized to 5/16” from 3/8”, the difference is amazing. The furling line passes through 5 sheaves on it’s way to the furler and collects a lot of friction, especially if it rubs the block cheeks, even a little. Furling is now an easy no-winch job. This is a line requirement that can easily be met with less expensive polyester double-braid, and you can use the money saved on a modern low stretch aramid core rope like VPC for low-stretch critical lines like your halyard.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,398
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Dave; I changed over to NER VPC halyards a number of years ago to lose the abundant stretch of StaSet. That stretch gets played out across the deck, up the mast, down the mast to a reefed sail and it not good for trim or the sail, it pumps your sail set. On my boat it was a minimum of 6” to 8” stretch, loading and unloading my sail, not good. As you know, the VPC gives you a great low stretch halyard (with Polyester cover) but it also puts maximum loads on your clutches that I assume they never saw before and they have a few years of wear on them. In my second or third year of VPC I found that the main halyard started slipping in the clutch. A spinlock rebuild kit from APS fixed the problem (jaw cam and base plate) and got the job done. Suggest trying that before you give up on your current halyard. This spring I will be applying line coating to the clutching areas to better shape the line being clutched. I think that will help line clutch grip as well.
@Gunni you had me all excited until I learned there are no rebuild kits for my Lewmar Clutches. They use a different design, a series of SS rings. The line runs through the rings, when the clutch is closed the rings grip the line and allow it to be trimmed in, but not out. A new set of clutches costs more than the new halyard.

If I wanted to do this on the really cheap I could buy some polyester cover and build up the line diameter at the clutch, not sure how long that would last in this application.

The halyard will likely be repurposed to a control line for adjustable Genoa cars, so all will not be lost.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,398
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
The Halyard could also be repurposed as a preventer line is still in good condition.
That is another possibility under consideration. I do have a line I bought many years ago for another boat I might use for a preventer. I never used that line because I didn't like the way it felt, so I stuck in a box and forgot about it until last fall.
 
Oct 22, 2014
21,084
CAL 35 Cruiser #21 moored EVERETT WA
I didn't like the way it felt
That is preventer material. You set it and leave it pulling forward on the boom while your Mainsheet pulls astern keeping the boom in place and the sail pulling despite the action of the waves on your boat. Since you do not need to make constant adjustments the hand feel is not relevant.

It just needs to be a stout line, and inspected from time to time for chafe. Further just be cause you have a preventer holding the boom in place does not mean you can ignore the mainsail. As the breeze freshens you may need to reef.
 
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Gunni

.
Mar 16, 2010
5,937
Beneteau 411 Oceanis Annapolis
you had me all excited until I learned there are no rebuild kits for my Lewmar Clutches. They use a different design, a series of SS rings. The line runs through the rings, when the clutch is closed the rings grip the line and allow it to be trimmed in, but not out. A new set of clutches costs more than the new halyard.
Lewmar makes, or made their rope clutches in two versions, one was light duty and one was heavy duty with a much higher load range. You may be able to simply switch out your halyard clutch.
 
Jan 11, 2014
11,398
Sabre 362 113 Fair Haven, NY
Lewmar makes, or made their rope clutches in two versions, one was light duty and one was heavy duty with a much higher load range. You may be able to simply switch out your halyard clutch.
Thanks for the ideas. I have the older version, circa 1993 with the metal handles. A replacement is $276 from APS, 120 feet of 7/16 VPC is $171 on sale. The math is easy. :)
 

Joe

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Jun 1, 2004
8,004
Catalina 27 Mission Bay, San Diego
Speaking of dyneema cored, polyester covered halyards and sheets.... you can easily make your own and save considerably. The high tech core allows you to down size... covering it with a less expensive polyester sheath also reduces expense. I suggest you call a specialist like APSLTD for recommendations. A 5/16 halyard would use a 3/16 core.... and would be considerable stronger than a 3/8 wire to rope halyard. If you go to the Annapolis Performance Sailing site and check out "splicing services" you'll see examples of core/cover options...
 
Nov 6, 2017
76
Catalina 30 5611 Stratford, Ct
The PO had increased the size of the main sheet so much it would not run through the blocks to the point that even in a ten knot breeze I would have to push the boom out to get past where I needed it then haul in the slack. The manual called for 7/16 and he had installed 5/8. After putting new 7/16 on everything works great even in light winds.
 
Sep 7, 2018
82
Chrysler C-22 Battle Creek
[QUOTE="jssailem, post: Should I buy the fancy new lines or can I get some cheap line from that box store and call it good?[/QUOTE]
I bought a sailboat last Aug and had a short sailing season ahead of me. Being anxious to get on the water,and having zero genoa sheets....I tried this. Ran to the box store and grabbed any ole prety rope that was close to the right diameter!
I dont recommend that. Got outfor 3 decent sails before we put the boat away for winter. That "brand new" rope is DESTROYED. I mean it is literally shredded and falling apart.
One of the reasons I was interested in this SBO topic.
 
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Jan 1, 2006
7,065
Slickcraft 26 Sailfish
The PO had increased the size of the main sheet so much it would not run through the blocks to the point that even in a ten knot breeze I would have to push the boom out to get past where I needed it then haul in the slack. The manual called for 7/16 and he had installed 5/8. After putting new 7/16 on everything works great even in light winds.
Been there. Lived it. Hated it.
 
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