Replace fresh water pipe to head faucet question

[SeanP]

Hi and TGIF to all,

When I got this 1986 Hunter 31, the PO told me there was a leak in the hose to the cold water faucet in the head. Does anyone know if the water hoses to the head faucet and the galley faucet split off anywhere, or are they two separate runs? I am trying to figure out where to disconnect the head hose in order to replace it. I have traced it back to behind the stove, but from there it vanishes. Any help or thoughts would be appreciated!

Sean

 

[SG]

Do you see the place where it's leaking?

 

[SeanP]

Hi SG, no....I cannot tell where it is leaking. While the PO said it did leak, when I pressurize the system and turn on the heads faucet, I cannot hear/see/detect where it is leaking. I emailed the PO to ask for insight, but no response as yet. Checked the bilges to see if the leaked water ran in there, but zip so worried it is leaking somewhere sight unseen and into the liner. Thoughts?
Sean

 

[SG]

If you turn the pressure water system off after its pressurized and you have everything shut off, does it lose pressure? (i.e., When you turn on the preasure water breaker after some time, have you lost your "mojo"?). If not, it would appear you don't have a leak for clinical purposes. You may, by the way, have a leak that isn't where you think

 

[SeanP]

SG, when the water pressure relay is turned on and I turn on the water faucet in the head, zero water emerges. I thus conclude that the leak is significant enough that no water is making it to the head faucet. The PO has confirmed that there was a leak, but does not recall where in the line it is. Thanks

 

[kloudie1]

Pages 4-5 of this from the site:
https://sbo.sailboatowners.com/downloads/Hunter_31_83-87_64283881.pdf
The plumbing diagram shows pipe runs.. Does the pump run when you turn on the breaker swtch at the electric panel? Are the valve(s) open in the system?
If you had a leak big enough to not allow water to the head faucets, there would be water all over the bilge and inside the lockers on starboard side..

 

[SG]

Beyond SeanP's response above...Does water come out of the galley faucet? Does the pump go on when you open the head faucet -- but nothing comes out?

 

[FastOlson]

Whether you find the present leak or just re-plumb, you are putting in a lot of time. Why not get some real peace of mind for all the hours you are investing?
Given the age of the original piping, I would suggest you pull new reinforced water hose thru and just start over. I did that a number of years ago for our '88 model boat.
In researching drinking water-safe hose at a local industrial hose and fittings supply house, they put me onto and FDA-approved reinforced tubing that would fit over barbed fittings and should last for many many decades. It is intended for air supply hose for breathing apparatus' for people. Bright yellow! Incredible burst strength specs.
Anyhow, hope you soon get back to safe, pressurized, and tasteless (!) fresh water.

 

[Reg M]

My 1984 H31 was re-done by a PO using that grey plastic tubing with compression fittings and works fine. If you get down into the stbd lazerett you will see where the hose comes from the galley area and goes right over to the stbd hull where it enters a run that takes it all the way to the head.

 

[SeanP]

Hi Kloudie, thanks for the link to the plumbing runs, very useful. Yes, the pump runs when I flip the breaker switch.

 

[SeanP]

Beyond SeanP's response above...Does water come out of the galley faucet? Does the pump go on when you open the head faucet -- but nothing comes out?

Hi SG, with pump on, water comes out of the galley faucet at a good clip. When I run the pump to pressurize the system, it does not turn off, so have been hesitant to leave it running in the event it is exacerbating the leak in the line to the head.

 

[SeanP]

Whether you find the present leak or just re-plumb, you are putting in a lot of time. Why not get some real peace of mind for all the hours you are investing?
Given the age of the original piping, I would suggest you pull new reinforced water hose thru and just start over. I did that a number of years ago for our '88 model boat.
In researching drinking water-safe hose at a local industrial hose and fittings supply house, they put me onto and FDA-approved reinforced tubing that would fit over barbed fittings and should last for many many decades. It is intended for air supply hose for breathing apparatus' for people. Bright yellow! Incredible burst strength specs.
Anyhow, hope you soon get back to safe, pressurized, and tasteless (!) fresh water.

Hi FastOlsen, as per my original post, I am indeed trying to replace the hose. I am trying to figure out where to disconnect the aft end of the line that runs to the head. Thanks for the tip on the air supply hose. Cheers, and will post here once I figure this all out

 

[SeanP]

My 1984 H31 was re-done by a PO using that grey plastic tubing with compression fittings and works fine. If you get down into the stbd lazerett you will see where the hose comes from the galley area and goes right over to the stbd hull where it enters a run that takes it all the way to the head.

Morning RM, thanks a ton! That was the intel I was looking for. I will hop in there today and check that out. I plan on using the same type of grey compression tubing once I have this old, leaking one out. Happy sailing. Sean

 

[FastOlson]

Morning RM, thanks a ton! That was the intel I was looking for. I will hop in there today and check that out. I plan on using the same type of grey compression tubing once I have this old, leaking one out. Happy sailing. Sean

It would be good to know just what your factory tubing was. Given the era, it was likely the "Qest" tubing and connector system used by a whole herd of boat builders, RV builders, and home builders in the 80's. The product had weaknesses that provoked a large law suite. Our boat had it installed, and as others predicted, it was seeping around fittings adjacent to vibration sources.

I replaced all of the original runs except one that was solid (we have two tanks, a manifold, pressure pump, & accumulator... lots of places for potential problems.)
No leaks or drips with the new hose, and the price was actually lower than replacement plastic tubing systems.
Price wise, the trick is to go with industrial suppliers and avoid retail marine stores... but you knew that.

 

[SeanP]

Morning Olsen, is this the kind of air supply hose you mean? http://bit.ly/2u3FgyW I will definitely check out the industrial suppliers, thanks for the further info! Cheers, Sean

 

[justsomeguy]

Polybutylene, I believe is what @FastOlson is advising against?

 

[SeanP]

I believe it is what he is advising against. Here is some info on polybutylene:

"While scientific evidence is scarce, it is believed that oxidants in the public water supplies, such as chlorine, react with the polybutylene piping and acetal fittings causing them to scale and flake and become brittle. Micro-fractures result, and the basic structural integrity of the system is reduced."

 

[Reg M]

Hi Sean,
My last boat was a CSY44 and I had to re-plumb the whole boat as it was a 1977 and the hoses were original and the water smelled like sulfur. I first tried that water hose with the reinforcing strands that weave through it and in a couple of months wound up with the same stink so I took it all out and did the same as I did with the boat before that one - I used CPVC hot water pipe (1/2 inch) for both hot and cold lines. It is soooo much cheaper than anything else you can buy and it is easy to work with. The only thing is of course, is that it doesn't bend but I found in the end it was a neater job as I ran the lines parallel to each other and just put elbows at every bend. In my case with the CSY a lot of my pipes were in the engine room which got pretty hot and the heat did not affect the CPVC. And you will never get the sulphur stink with CPVC. Any hose that allows light to get to the water will allow the bugs to grow that causes the sulphur smell. I would say you could do your whole boat for under $40. There may be one hitch though and that is the size of the run from the lazerette to the head, I'm not sure you can get two pieces of 1/2 inch CPVC into that run. I plan to redo all the plumbing around the galley and hot water heater on my boat sometime in the future and I will be using CPVC at least for that portion, right now it is a rat's nest of grey tubing and looks terrible. I also plan to add a bye pass valve for the hot water heater for winterizing, same as in my RV.

 

[FastOlson]

Morning Olsen, is this the kind of air supply hose you mean? http://bit.ly/2u3FgyW I will definitely check out the industrial suppliers, thanks for the further info! Cheers, Sean

Not sure from the pix. Ours is flexible hose, with some strong reinforcing cord in the layers of vinyl. Bright (!) yellow. Sold off of a reel, in bulk. This was at a hose and fittings supply company in my city, and there's likely a similar company in any major city.
Someone else asked about the old gray tubing, referencing it by chemical formula. That I do not know, but the company that sold so much bad product was the one I referenced.

 

[SG]

I would stick with conventional marine reinforced potable water hose, if it was me. In your case you have few fixtures and you don't need to get into this.

There are pex systems, but you need to watch which connectors and hose you get. Some of the components have potential issues of hazardous side effects.

Again, why get too slick.