Replace Barlow 15s with ?

Justin_NSA · Feb 28, 2017

It's probably a good buy for a pocket cruiser. You don't need the added expense of 2 speeds or self tailing.

Michael Davis · Feb 28, 2017

If I was replacing winches they would be ST no matter what brand!

CaptDon01 · Feb 28, 2017

I've only had experience with the Lewmar winches the factory has installed for many years. Always seemed adequate to me. I've sailed larger boats with self tailing winches, and loved them, and I've owned a C-22 with self tailing jib winches, I can tell you first hand, self tailing winches for the jib on a C-22 was not good for me. When a puff hit's, or I need to let the sheet out a little, I can quickly pull the sheet out of the jam cleat and ease out the sheet, or strip the sheet off my standard winch from the opposite side of the cockpit, sorry, can't do that from the opposite side of the cockpit with a self tailing winch, they require someone to physically be at the winch and unwrap it. Now on a new design C-22 there might be a slight argument, but to me, a better approach is the way the factory installed a jam cleat on the side of the cockpit seat back on the older Capri-22's. Here's a photo of my C-22 with self tailing winches. Passed the cool factor with flying colors, flunked the practicality test.

Don

Michael Davis · Feb 28, 2017

Grew up racing small boat and we never let out sheets in the puffs. Just head up a little. Make as much to windward as you can.

Jackdaw · Mar 1, 2017

Michael Davis said:
Grew up racing small boat and we never let out sheets in the puffs. Just head up a little. Make as much to windward as you can.

That's slower.
Ease to match the sail immediately to the shift in apparent wind on your current course.
Hike, turn up and trim in to the apparent higher angle in the new breeze.

Every small boat sailor repeat after me: "ease, hike, trim."

You do this because its much faster to get your sails in trim via easing than turning. And while you do the turn/trim together, you are going much faster (because you are footing) but still on your original angle.

That is much quicker that feathering, and someone doing this is going to get to the top faster.

Michael Davis · Mar 1, 2017

Always learning. Thanks

CaptDon01 · Mar 1, 2017

Actually, my C-22 has Lewmar-7 winches for the jib sheets with a simple aluminum jam cleat, and a couple years ago after my bike accident I installed Lewmar-6's for my halyard winches with rope clutches. My original C-22 had raised Harken cam cleats, but my jam cleats are simpler, and easier to release under a load than cam cleats, and are zero maintenance.

You can see the jam cleat mounted on a raised wedge in the photo below as we're approaching our mooring at Catalina Island.

Imagine how much fun it would be having to be at a self-tailing winch in this photo. With my set-up all I have to do is pull the sheet up, and whip it off the drum, all from the windward side.

Don

Jackdaw · Mar 1, 2017

CaptDon01 said:
View attachment 133688
Imagine how much fun it would be having to be at a self-tailing winch in this photo. With my set-up all I have to do is pull the sheet up, and whip it off the drum, all from the windward side.

You're practically beam reaching with your sails close hauled! No wonder you're heeled like that! ;^)

Bill Roosa · Mar 1, 2017

I'm with jackdaw, let out those sheets and go faster and with a lot less heel.

EditorC22NSA · Mar 1, 2017

Don...if you were pointing any higher...you'd be on shore or running-around by now. Heeling IS more FUN in a Catalina 22.

Bill Roosa · Mar 1, 2017

Well maybe heeling is fun in a 22 but what about the race. you know the one that you are always in with any other sailboat in sight? Going fast is fun too. I can say that my First Mate prefers fast and flat to slow and tilted

Ward H · Mar 1, 2017

When sailing in conditions where I am more comfortable staying on the high side, I take the working sheet and do one turn around the winch and bring it across to the high side winch. Makes it a bit easier to trim without having to jump down to the low side and back. Not sure if that would work well on a 22.

CaptDon01 · Mar 1, 2017

Ward, The C-22 racers typically have a 3" ratcheted turning block where the winch usually was located and route the sheet up to the winch on the opposite side of the cabin top. Photo taken during the 2014 C-22 Nationals in Houston of a C-22 Sport setup for racing.

Rich, the photo was taken at one of the races at the Havasu Pocket Cruiser Convention. Come hell or high water, I was going to make that mark! You can see Debbie looking under the jib checking my status. I had my fixed Rudder-Craft rudder hanging on the transom so the boat wouldn't round up like she would've with a factory rudder.

EditorC22NSA · Mar 1, 2017

Hey Don...look at me...I want to be just like YOU someday...heeling and fast!

p.s. I'm leading the fleet in this photo...the lens was not wide enough to show them.

BTW, winches are Harken 14ST, but I took the ST arm off them.

CaptDon01 · Mar 1, 2017

EditorC22NSA said:
View attachment 133704

Hey Don...look at me...I want to be just like YOU someday...heeling and fast!

Hate to point this out in public Rich, but you needed a 150 genoa to dip your rail in the water. Look closely, I'm flying a jib!

Remember: "It's not what yeah got, it's how yeah use it" LOL

Don

Ned Ludd · Mar 1, 2017

Jackdaw is correct, sailing a Wavelength 24 in sustained 25 knots and puffs to 40 easing the jib sheets quickly and taking back in on them had us walking over the competition. A real workout for the mid deck crew though.

Jackdaw · Mar 2, 2017

Ned Ludd said:
Jackdaw is correct, sailing a Wavelength 24 in sustained 25 knots and puffs to 40 easing the jib sheets quickly and taking back in on them had us walking over the competition. A real workout for the mid deck crew though.

Yea. Look at the Apparent Wind in that picture vs the sail trim. The sails are trimmed close hauled, but the apparent (windex and flag) show basically a beam reach! Easing the sails to mach would have allowed the boat to fetch the mark and be much faster. Plus you would not have to have a huge handful of tiller to hold the course.

Flat is fast.

EditorC22NSA · Mar 2, 2017

CaptDon01 said:
Hate to point this out in public Rich, but you needed a 150 genoa to dip your rail in the water. Look closely, I'm flying a jib!

Remember: "It's not what yeah got, it's how yeah use it" LOL

Don

Don...I agree...and also hate to point it out in public, but your Catalina 22 Mk-II w/ Wing is heeling as much with just a jib (due to wing keel), as my Catalina 22 Sport w/ Swing Keel. That makes your boat a lot more tender than mine, and makes my boat faster in higher wind. And I am not one to brag, but my Catalina 22 Sport is extremely well tuned to go fast in heavy wind with very little weather-helm (without a Rudder Craft rudder)...and that's also fast. How's the weather-helm in your picture? (Mine is near-neutral.) Am I going to have to bring my C22 Sport all the way from Indiana to Florida to settle this dispute?

LOL BTY: we should continue this conversation on another C22 forum thread...we've hi-jacked this thread away from the winch topic.