Replace aluminum water tanks with "pillow" tanks

Oct 29, 2009
49
Hunter 42 Passage Daytona Beach
Hey Old Sailor 2, you must be and old sailor, somewhere around my age, 68. Anyway, you have to disassemble the cabinet next to the chart table, remove the bench seat base and then the one section of floor comes up and you need to remove the marine board under the refrig compressors. Then you need to dig out all the foam around the old aluminum tank so you can break it loose... of course you have to remove the tank fittings also. Once you get the tank loose, you can lift it out and take it out entry. Reverse for new tank and once it's in, refoam it to secure it and Wala your back in Bidness as they say in the south. Time consuming not that difficult,only need help when lifting out and setting in the new tank. If you get the new tank custom made from the company in Maine, you need to vent the water tank to the shower sump, the external vents need to be too high, they'll explain it to you.
 
Oct 19, 2011
181
Hunter 42 Passage San Diego, CA
Hey Old Sailor 2, you must be and old sailor, somewhere around my age, 68. Anyway, you have to disassemble the cabinet next to the chart table, remove the bench seat base and then the one section of floor comes up and you need to remove the marine board under the refrig compressors. Then you need to dig out all the foam around the old aluminum tank so you can break it loose... of course you have to remove the tank fittings also. Once you get the tank loose, you can lift it out and take it out entry. Reverse for new tank and once it's in, refoam it to secure it and Wala your back in Bidness as they say in the south. Time consuming not that difficult,only need help when lifting out and setting in the new tank. If you get the new tank custom made from the company in Maine, you need to vent the water tank to the shower sump, the external vents need to be too high, they'll explain it to you.
Yep, you nailed it, 64! So, given the choice of replacing with bladder or doing the midships tank with a poly tank which would you choose? When I did the inspection ports I felt like it would be tedious but not hard work to remove the tank and replace. The other thing I learned when doing the tank inspection ports is the tank has baffles and I wonder if the tank you gut from Maine has baffles. Obviously the baffles are to keep the water from suddenly shifting and possibly sending the boat off balance but a 25k pound boat vs 60 gal at 450 pounds I wonder how much of an impact that would have,

I might go half and half, bladder pillow forward and poly in midships BUT if bladder is easier (not deconstructing the cabinet and not removing the compressors) then why not?
 
Oct 19, 2011
181
Hunter 42 Passage San Diego, CA
Hey Old Sailor 2, you must be and old sailor, somewhere around my age, 68. Anyway, you have to disassemble the cabinet next to the chart table, remove the bench seat base and then the one section of floor comes up and you need to remove the marine board under the refrig compressors. Then you need to dig out all the foam around the old aluminum tank so you can break it loose... of course you have to remove the tank fittings also. Once you get the tank loose, you can lift it out and take it out entry. Reverse for new tank and once it's in, refoam it to secure it and Wala your back in Bidness as they say in the south. Time consuming not that difficult,only need help when lifting out and setting in the new tank. If you get the new tank custom made from the company in Maine, you need to vent the water tank to the shower sump, the external vents need to be too high, they'll explain it to you.
By the way, I learned to sail in North Carolina and Virginia so yep, I know "back in business". Sandy
 
Oct 29, 2009
49
Hunter 42 Passage Daytona Beach
Understanding that I wouldn't trade my 42P for another boat, Hunter screwed us all by not having someone with the talent to oversee all the systems and be able to nip these problems in the bud. Anyone with half a brain should have been able to catch the fact that not putting a drain to the bilge from a compartment that contains water and an Aluminum Tank that will corrode if it is soaked in that water. It's the problem when they won't hire the talent to oversee these issues. Oh well. Every 42 will eventually need the tanks replaced. As to your situation Sailor Man 2, I don't know how to anchor 6 to 800 pounds of water from rolling around in the bilge so to me the solid tank with baffles makes more sense.
 
Oct 19, 2011
181
Hunter 42 Passage San Diego, CA
Understanding that I wouldn't trade my 42P for another boat, Hunter screwed us all by not having someone with the talent to oversee all the systems and be able to nip these problems in the bud. Anyone with half a brain should have been able to catch the fact that not putting a drain to the bilge from a compartment that contains water and an Aluminum Tank that will corrode if it is soaked in that water. It's the problem when they won't hire the talent to oversee these issues. Oh well. Every 42 will eventually need the tanks replaced. As to your situation Sailor Man 2, I don't know how to anchor 6 to 800 pounds of water from rolling around in the bilge so to me the solid tank with baffles makes more sense.
amen to that! QC is something that every manufacturer should pay attention to, and that is not just in the original manufacturing but looking to the future. The chemistry is something even I understand so someone should have said something. But we are here now and I love my P42 so I deal with the problems.

I understand that plastic tanks cannot be baffled so would a stainless tank be advisable or does Ronco have a method for baffling? As my senior you are required to impart your knowledge and wisdom to us young bucks!

Stainless or baffled poly, that is the question! Sandy
 
Nov 26, 2012
2,315
Catalina 250 Bodega Bay CA
Seems that baffling can be achieved with bladder tanks by installing several crossconnected bladders inside each old tank carcass. Seems you could buy ready made bladders using this concept too. Chief
 
Oct 19, 2011
181
Hunter 42 Passage San Diego, CA
Seems that baffling can be achieved with bladder tanks by installing several crossconnected bladders inside each old tank carcass. Seems you could buy ready made bladders using this concept too. Chief
this certainly sounds like a reasonable approach however I wonder how to pick the water up from the lowest spot. My midships tank has a suction lift pump that picks the water up from the lowest location in the existing tank that contours with the shade of the hull. If I could not get this pick up line to the lowest cross connected tank then I would have a given amount of water that would be unavailable. Hmmm..I will have to ponder that design. Sandy
 
Nov 26, 2012
2,315
Catalina 250 Bodega Bay CA
Cross connecting tanks with flexible hose is not much of a problem and the pump needs to probably be inline with the common waterline after the cross connect. Attitude makes a big difference when problem solving. Think, think, think! Chief
 
Oct 19, 2011
181
Hunter 42 Passage San Diego, CA
Cross connecting tanks with flexible hose is not much of a problem and the pump needs to probably be inline with the common waterline after the cross connect. Attitude makes a big difference when problem solving. Think, think, think! Chief
Hey Chief, are you talking about a suction line from the pump to a main header and branch lines from the header to the individual tanks? That way you draw down from all tanks at the same time? Likewise I would expect to have to have a single fill line down to a fill header and branch lines to each tank thus filling each tank at the same time. That is a lot of piping and a lot of connections to leak. But guess if you double clamp or heat bond the connections properly they won't leak. Spaghetti for sure. Sandy
 
Oct 19, 2011
181
Hunter 42 Passage San Diego, CA
Folks, I have a pillow tank guy who will build the water tanks to match the existing aluminum tank drawings with fittings as needed BUT he wants to charge me an initial set up fee (one time) equal to the value of the tanks. He has thought this through and will provide cross tank stabilizers which would tie into the existing tank that would not be removed. As much of the aluminum tank would remain in place providing containment and stability for the bladder. Question: does this sound like a good idea and do you think there are enough hunter p42 owners with these tanks with a problem that needs to be solved for the long haul? Your opinions are always needed and welcome.
Sandy
 
Jul 25, 2004
359
Hunter 42 currently in New Zealand
P42 forward water tank pillow tank conversion

Folks, I have a pillow tank guy who will build the water tanks to match the existing aluminum tank drawings with fittings as needed BUT he wants to charge me an initial set up fee (one time) equal to the value of the tanks. He has thought this through and will provide cross tank stabilizers which would tie into the existing tank that would not be removed. As much of the aluminum tank would remain in place providing containment and stability for the bladder. Question: does this sound like a good idea and do you think there are enough hunter p42 owners with these tanks with a problem that needs to be solved for the long haul? Your opinions are always needed and welcome.
Sandy
Sandy, I'm definitely interested. And if we end up doing this, I'd pitch in for my share of the set-up fee. There are two questions that come immediately to mind: (1) Estimated cost for the forward tank unit (tank + fittings + supports, etc)? (2) Who is this guy? (to see what info I can find on the internet about him, his products and services, etc)?
 
Oct 19, 2011
181
Hunter 42 Passage San Diego, CA
Sandy, I'm definitely interested. And if we end up doing this, I'd pitch in for my share of the set-up fee. There are two questions that come immediately to mind: (1) Estimated cost for the forward tank unit (tank + fittings + supports, etc)? (2) Who is this guy? (to see what info I can find on the internet about him, his products and services, etc)?
Great Question: The guy is Scott Sagalow of Ready Containment. He must be the regional sales guy . He quoted me both forward and aft tanks at $1075 including fittings with a one time set up fee of $1250. The design sounds great but the set up fee doesn't sound too good to me. i could understand something like $600. The set up includes CADD drawings generated from drawings I have obtained from Hunter. Machine set up and production fees to make sure it all works as designed. I would jump at it if I knew we could get enough people interested enough to purchase the tanks over some period of time......but the question remains will l end up holding the bag. I continue to investigate other manufacturers but this is the first proposal. Sandy
 
Jul 25, 2004
359
Hunter 42 currently in New Zealand
Great Question: The guy is Scott Sagalow of Ready Containment. He must be the regional sales guy . He quoted me both forward and aft tanks at $1075 including fittings with a one time set up fee of $1250. The design sounds great but the set up fee doesn't sound too good to me. i could understand something like $600. The set up includes CADD drawings generated from drawings I have obtained from Hunter. Machine set up and production fees to make sure it all works as designed. I would jump at it if I knew we could get enough people interested enough to purchase the tanks over some period of time......but the question remains will l end up holding the bag. I continue to investigate other manufacturers but this is the first proposal. Sandy
Thanks for the footwork, Sandy!! Starting to sound hopeful . . .

Paul.
 
Jul 25, 2004
359
Hunter 42 currently in New Zealand
Great Question: The guy is Scott Sagalow of Ready Containment. He must be the regional sales guy . He quoted me both forward and aft tanks at $1075 including fittings with a one time set up fee of $1250. The design sounds great but the set up fee doesn't sound too good to me. i could understand something like $600. The set up includes CADD drawings generated from drawings I have obtained from Hunter. Machine set up and production fees to make sure it all works as designed. I would jump at it if I knew we could get enough people interested enough to purchase the tanks over some period of time......but the question remains will l end up holding the bag. I continue to investigate other manufacturers but this is the first proposal. Sandy
Thanks for the info, Sandy. Impressive website. Looks like they have a lot of experience with sailboat water tank bladders, too.
 
Oct 29, 2009
49
Hunter 42 Passage Daytona Beach
Great job finding them. I didn't see them when I did my tank and apparently no one else did either, I got all my info from the forum, I would have considered them. I will definitely keep them for future reference. My forward tank is not an issue YET and I replaced the midship tank with a custom plastic tank. Anyway if my forward tank becomes an issue I will jump in to share the cost for the forward tank replacement. Assuming that the cost of of design is divided between the two tanks. The bladder is the only way to get a new tank into the forward berth area unless you cut off the bow and re-glass it back on. It looks like we could get fuel and waste tanks from them also. Seems like they would up the cost a hundred bucks and get back the design that way knowing they stand a chance at multiple sales. Especially if you tell them that you are sharing the info with all the passage owners on the forum and they all are going to need this without a doubt. I spent over a thousand on the main tank alone and since it was the first tank for a passage, I'm sure I paid extra for the design. Part of the cost of doing business. Sailor man, I have all my design pics on this ipad if you want them. All the dimensions and pics of the new tank as it was constructed. My email is gm@harbourbeachresort.com if you want them, email me your address and I'll send the to you. Very complete and easy for them to figure the design for the bladder if you want them. I will post a couple of samples here.
 

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Oct 19, 2011
181
Hunter 42 Passage San Diego, CA
I am still convinced the bladder is the way to go for the forward tank but not yet convinced bladder is the way to go for amidships but I am having a hard time finding someone to build the midship custom tank. The work to replace the midship tank seems nuts but at least it is achievable. The forward tank is impossible and expensive....that is why the pillow tank is best for that.
Example of why I am not convinced: where do you put the fill and drain lines? existing fill and drain lines for the midships tank are right in the corner just like Cool shows them. so, what happens when the tank is only half full? Does the fill line stretch to that level or do you put the fill line across the top so it drops with the tank too. And then currently the suction line for the pump goes all the way diagonally across the midships tank to the bottom corner which is one reason we get all the crud. How do you install a suction line for the pump in a bladder? Do you put that too across the tank drawing off the bottom or, as one guy told me, put the suction line right in the top and don't vent the tank (bladder) and the suction pump will evacuate the air from the tank and then pull water as the tank deflates. I don't know how that will work. Maybe more research with the tank boys will help answer these questions. Anyone out there have any thoughts on that reasoning?

As for cost I am not sure how we would distribute the cost of the start up one time fee to those who want to purchase a tank or tanks unless we set up some sort of group and that sounds too cumbersome. Thoughts on how to do that? I could absorb it but then how would that work. when you look at the cost of replacing the forward tank with reduced size due to access restraints and refiberglassing the V berth at $10k the start up fee sounds cheap.

Too much thinking?? Sandy
 
Apr 8, 2010
1,606
Frers 33 41426 Westport, CT
Interesting thread.

Question.... Once you cut a access hole in the forward tank, how do you remove the baffles from the inside of the existing tank, or the sharp edges if you can manage to cut them out, before installing the bladder tank, so they don't cut through the tank once you fill it and get underway?
 
Oct 19, 2011
181
Hunter 42 Passage San Diego, CA
Interesting thread.

Question.... Once you cut a access hole in the forward tank, how do you remove the baffles from the inside of the existing tank, or the sharp edges if you can manage to cut them out, before installing the bladder tank, so they don't cut through the tank once you fill it and get underway?
Good point! I am not exactly sure how that forward tank is constructed but I do know that fortunately the boat supports the tank and not the other way around. Therefore I can see an adventurous soul cutting as much as is required to access the weld points of the baffles and grinding those down in order to avoid the unfortunate occurrence of chaffing a hole in the brand new pillow tank. But this is yet another opportunity presented by the 1990's makers of the H42P.