Replace aluminum water tanks with "pillow" tanks

[Old Sailor 2]

My 1992 Passage has aluminum water tanks. I have tried to clean the "stalagtights" from the midships tank with limited success and I have not attempted the forward tank. I am seeing an awful lot of that tank residue coming in the filters and so I am wondering if it is time to replace those unreachable tanks. I have done enough crawling around in the boat to know the forward tank is almost impossible to access and the midships tank is little better. I have come up with a scheme to cut large holes in each tank and remove the baffles (I am not certain there are baffles in the forward tank) and "stuff" custom made bladder tanks in each using the old aluminum to act as a support for the bladder. Has anyone done this with their water tanks? I would love to hear about other's success rate or schemes for replacing those tanks. Thanks! Sandy

 

[bananabender56]

There was a baffle in my forward water tank which I found when removing. Would it be easier to cut a hole in each tank and install a deck plate so you can inspect and clean?

 

[Old Sailor 2]

There was a baffle in my forward water tank which I found when removing. Would it be easier to cut a hole in each tank and install a deck plate so you can inspect and clean?

Yep, I have done that in the midships tank but not yet in the forward tank. I can access most of the tank but because of the baffles I cannot reach one segment of it. But as some point I feel like the tanks will need to be replaced. example: currently there is an unanswered source of fresh water in my bilge. I have looked everywhere and the culprit MAY be a pinhole leak in a water tank. Not sure that is certain, but if I had confidence the tanks are sound I could continue the search elsewhere.

 

[bananabender56]

Try using red food dye in each tank

 

[Paul Cossman]

Passage 42 water tanks

I have a 1991 P42 with the same water tank issues. However, the corrosion in my forward tank finally led to a leak that was so damaging to the support structure that my forward tank has been unusable for over two years. (The tank is supported by a lot of plywood, and it was turning to mush). Like you, I considered bladder "pillow" tanks inserts, but the commercially available ones (that would fit) don't offer much storage space. Just not worth the expense and trouble.

Based upon the pricing of those currently available, I never bothered to check into custom manufacture. I suspect it wouldn't be too onerous to cut into the top of the forward tank, remove the baffling, and insert such a bladder.

If you find something practical, with anything even approximating the storage capacity of the forward tank, please let the rest of us know. It's the greatest source of frustration for me on the entire boat.

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Chief RA]

I tend to support Old Sailors concept of plastic bladders inserted into the old tanks. New water surfaces in the bladders, don't have to remove and reinsert tanks, don't need to resecure tanks, easy to replace when worn out, etc. That would be worth a lot of custom made bladder money to me! Sounds like win, win!
Chief

 

[Old Sailor 2]

Thanks folks. I am certainly investigating cost of custom pillow tanks to approximate the shape of the existing aluminum tanks. since the existing tanks serve no structural duty and if I can find a reasonably priced custom tank then I will let the forum know. My concern is when the water is used out of the pillow tank and the tank collapses then how does that impact the fill line from the fitting on the deck or in the anchor locker. There really does not need to be a vent line but I think a vent used as an overflow is advisable. The drain location is optimal. If a tank level monitor is used then that fitting can be inserted as well. As improvements in pillow tanks are made I think this is a no brainer for those of us faced with these inaccessible tanks.

A marine mechanic friend of mine did a tank replacement of the forward tank on a 42 Passage and after all was said and done it was a $10,000 job. and the plastic tank he installed had to be no larger in one dimension than the door going into the V birth. He had to completely cut the bed out and cut up the existing tank, replace it with a smaller tank then reinstall the bed fiberglassing it as required. WAY too much work for me. I will sell my cherished boat before I go through that. Thus the research into pillow tanks.

Stay tuned! Sandy

 

[Paul Cossman]

Sandy, WAY too much work for me as well! Thanks for the info. I am truly waiting with baited breath to see what you come up with for the pillow tanks. I agree that it is most likely the best solution. If it does come to fruition, there might be a discount for mulitiple orders of the same tank.

Cheers,
Paul

 

[Old Sailor 2]

Hey folks, My First Mate and I are in design discussions right now. I Have the drawings of the original tanks and I will get in touch with the pillow tank folks to see if we can get a Hunter Bulk Rate or something like that. I have no idea how many Hunter owners of the 1992 vintage would need or want pillow tanks but we can certainly let everyone know of the design. And Paul, I will try to document the work by word and by picture so we can post on this forum to assist others if they are in need.

But one big question raised by my wife, the sound of reason many times. The boat and tanks are 22 years old. We absolutely do show signs of tank corrosion and residue from the precipitate on the tank walls. I did as was discussed on this forum and cut inspection ports, cleaned the tank and tried to get all the stalagtights off the tank with some success but not as much as I would want. So, the BIG QUESTION: Why replace the aluminum tanks now....why not wait until a problem arises. First, I don't know they aren't leaking although I did do a die test last fall with negative results. BUT I am convinced through reading horror stories by guys like Paul that it is best to perform preventative maintenance opposed to waiting until the problem, which seems inevitable, arises in full. Is my thinking faulty and does the First Mate bring reality into my thinking or is it best to cut the problem off at the pass if it is not outrageously priced???? Thoughts?? Sandy

 

[Paul Cossman]

The Metaphysics of boat maintenance vs. repair

Sandy, it's not just us, but probably every boat owner who wrestles with that one. I've sailed from N. America to NZ three times, and between NZ and the islands at least 10 times (10 one-way trips). In the beginning, I spent months readying the boat, improving everything. That period shortened as time went on. For my last cruising season, from NZ to Vanuatu, I noticed the forward water tank leak about two weeks before departure. Then I noticed the mushiness of the plywood support; I carved out pieces of it with my index finger. I made the executive decision to just drain the tank, leave it empty, and enjoy my season.

We now just use the aft tank, keep a couple jerry cans on deck as emergency back-up, and keep the aft tank full with out watermaker (a Power survivor 40). We're happy.

But my aft tank clogs my aft tank water pump intake line regularly. I put a "T" fitting onto the waterpump, and attached an 18" flexible hose to it. It has a cap on the end. When the precipitate clogs the pump intake inside the aft tank, I just take the PVC cap off the 1/2" hose, blow into it to clear the clog, suck clean water back up (to avoid the problem of having air in the lines), and we're in business again. It only takes about 15 to 30 seconds for the entire procedure. It's easy.

So this is a long-winded way of saying that I subscribe to the view of you don't fix something (that is non-safety related and is this involved) until it breaks. I haven't even put an inspection port in my aft tank yet. Because my current procedure has worked so well for so many years. My view: I'd rather be enjoying a margarita on the beach in the tropics than altering a boat at a marina berth.

My two cents.

Paul

 

[Old Sailor 2]

Now you are talking Paul, Margarita on the beach IS the way to go. But i have to admit something. I am a retired engineer who can't stand anything to be awry. So I tend to fix it before it breaks so sometimes I have to forego the Margarita....I will try to be a recovering engineer in the future and join you on the beach.

BTW, do you ever get to the states under sail? Sandy

 

[Paul Cossman]

Now you are talking Paul, Margarita on the beach IS the way to go. But i have to admit something. I am a retired engineer who can't stand anything to be awry. So I tend to fix it before it breaks so sometimes I have to forego the Margarita....I will try to be a recovering engineer in the future and join you on the beach.

BTW, do you ever get to the states under sail? Sandy

Off topic, and my apologies, but in answer to your question, yes. We went from NZ north to Fiji, then to Wallis, then to Western Samoa, then to Penrhyn (Cook Is.), then to Hawaii, then direct to Catalina Island off S. California.

 

[CoolChange91-42passage]

Hey guys, been a lot of discussion on this topic of the 42 passage. Checkout the thread Aluminum Water Tanks from a couple of years ago.

 

[CoolChange91-42passage]

Sorry, you have to search for "Aluminum water tanks"

 

[Old Sailor 2]

Sorry, you have to search for "Aluminum water tanks"

Thanks, I will do that now. there has to be a simple solution.

 

[Old Sailor 2]

Sorry, you have to search for "Aluminum water tanks"

Hey Cool, I went to "search" in the forum section and plugged in "Aluminum water tanks" without the quotes and got the "Sorry, no matches" deal. do i need to include the quotes? Not sure what I am doing wrong. Sandy

 

[Paul Cossman]

aluminum water tanks

Sorry, you have to search for "Aluminum water tanks"

Hi guys,

I did the search, and I found some of the old posts that I've seen before. Yes, we've had a lot of discussion on this topic. But no, other than discussions about inspection ports and cleaning, there's really nothing there. Nobody has ever come up with a solution for leaking or completely deteriorated tanks. As we all know, the original forward tank is too large to get inside the cabin, and then there is the issue of the bunk. Nobody has ever completely opened a tank and tried to seal the inside with epoxy or similar substance, nor has anyone inserted any pillow/collapsible tanks of any sort.

Still looking for solutions . . . .

 

[CoolChange91-42passage]

Sorry guys and gals but there is no solution to the water tank problem other than replacement or maybe a bladder insert, but I never found a bladder solution. If the water tanks had not been foamed in, and if there would have been drains to the bilge drilled in before the tanks were put in, you would only have mineral deposits in the tanks to deal with. BUT, since they were foamed in over 20 years ago and since we all get water into the bilges, we are talking about boats, the tanks are rotting from the outside inward and you can't fix that with an inspection hole. When I pulled mine and got it out you could see tons of little pinholes and I mean tons. Personally, I wouldn't want to have the water I may brush my teeth with, definitely wouldn't drink it, full of aluminum oxide from the corroded aluminum tank. Anyway, the only way to solve the issues with the tanks in the 42 passage is removal and replacement. It can be done, I did it and so far, I'm very happy with it. I no longer have to worry about it. I still have my forward water tank that's original but I can periodically inspect it and if it begins to leak, I'll have to deal with it. It appears it's not subjected to an external rot the main tank was so hopefully it will last. I keep it as backup and keep it full so that no air can enter to promote corrosion and hopefully that will keep it longer. Anyway, just saying if I hadn't pulled my tank I couldn't be giving this insight for what it's worth. Searching appears to be a little difficult on this site but the info is there. And if anyone comes up with a bladder fix for the bow tank, let me know please I may be interested. Good Luck to everyone.

 

[Old Sailor 2]

Sorry guys and gals but there is no solution to the water tank problem other than replacement or maybe a bladder insert, but I never found a bladder solution. If the water tanks had not been foamed in, and if there would have been drains to the bilge drilled in before the tanks were put in, you would only have mineral deposits in the tanks to deal with. BUT, since they were foamed in over 20 years ago and since we all get water into the bilges, we are talking about boats, the tanks are rotting from the outside inward and you can't fix that with an inspection hole. When I pulled mine and got it out you could see tons of little pinholes and I mean tons. Personally, I wouldn't want to have the water I may brush my teeth with, definitely wouldn't drink it, full of aluminum oxide from the corroded aluminum tank. Anyway, the only way to solve the issues with the tanks in the 42 passage is removal and replacement. It can be done, I did it and so far, I'm very happy with it. I no longer have to worry about it. I still have my forward water tank that's original but I can periodically inspect it and if it begins to leak, I'll have to deal with it. It appears it's not subjected to an external rot the main tank was so hopefully it will last. I keep it as backup and keep it full so that no air can enter to promote corrosion and hopefully that will keep it longer. Anyway, just saying if I hadn't pulled my tank I couldn't be giving this insight for what it's worth. Searching appears to be a little difficult on this site but the info is there. And if anyone comes up with a bladder fix for the bow tank, let me know please I may be interested. Good Luck to everyone.

Hey CoolChange, so you pulled your midship tank and replaced it? I inserted three inspection ports (couldn't get to one quadrant) and cleaned as much as possible and had marginal success but still get the aluminum oxide sediment (which is not health hazardous) which certainly is not aesthetically pleasing. Can you let us know the process you went through to pull the old and how you got the new midships tank in? And what material is your new tank?

I am currently chasing down a pillow tank manufacturer who understands load ship and other issues with a boat and they are working on a design for me. I will let all know what my success is when I see the proposed design with accessories.

Sandy

 

[Old Sailor 2]

Hi guys,

I did the search, and I found some of the old posts that I've seen before. Yes, we've had a lot of discussion on this topic. But no, other than discussions about inspection ports and cleaning, there's really nothing there. Nobody has ever come up with a solution for leaking or completely deteriorated tanks. As we all know, the original forward tank is too large to get inside the cabin, and then there is the issue of the bunk. Nobody has ever completely opened a tank and tried to seal the inside with epoxy or similar substance, nor has anyone inserted any pillow/collapsible tanks of any sort.

Still looking for solutions . . . .

Paul, might take a little time but I am in discussions with manufacturer now. He seems to understand sailboat issues like load shift and keeping the pillow tank in place , etc. I will let you know if I can get him to be price reasonable....Sandy