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Repairing Hunter 40 damage from Hurricane Matthew

Discussion in 'Big Boats' started by B757Captain, Nov 30, 2016. Add this thread to a FAQ

  1. B757Captain

    B757Captain

    Joined May 8, 2013
    217 posts, 111 likes
    Hunter 40
    US Dataw Island, SC
    Already done - I thin West Systems about 25% with acetone and brush the edges with a few coats. The acetone helps the epoxy get deeper penetration into the wood. The silicone for sealing was to keep moisture from migrating between the joints while keeping the ability to remove pieces of the structure if necessary.

    Other parts, like the floorboards, get overall thinned then unthinned coats of epoxy for water protection like you said.
     


  2. Kermit

    Kermit

    Joined Jul 31, 2010
    4,574 posts, 1,735 likes
    Hunter 260
    US Lake Murray Sailing Club, SC
    Especially if @Boat Babe shows up!
     


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  3. Crothers99

    Crothers99

    Joined Jan 17, 2010
    4 posts, 0 likes
    Hunter Legend 40
    US Edgewater
    I really enjoy your post. I have a 1988 Hunter Legend 40 and have been doing a lot of work and your blog has been a big help. I have the mast down now to work replace the wiring and cables and I was wondering if you had any suggestions on how to caulk the chain plates.
     


  4. jssailem

    jssailem

    Joined Oct 22, 2014
    5,541 posts, 1,835 likes
    CAL 35 Cruiser
    US Salem, Moored Port Everett WA


  5. B757Captain

    B757Captain

    Joined May 8, 2013
    217 posts, 111 likes
    Hunter 40
    US Dataw Island, SC
    Does your '88 have square chainplates with 4 large screws securing them to the boss on the deck? And the SS poles transferring the chainplate loads down to the grid? I looked for a pic of mine and surprisingly it seems that's one area I haven't photographed.

    If so, I'm pretty sure the upper square chainplate is not meant to move in relation to the deck (B&R rig) and is solidly bolted to the deck boss - mine were. In this case I don't think there's supposed to be movement or any gap between the chainplate and deck boss.

    When I had my mast down I loosened the screws holding the chainplate. Some of the screws (pretty big, 3/8th diam threads if I remember) came out easily but I think a few were stubborn. When the deck relaxed relative to the chainplate I was able to clean underneath the edges through the gap. After cleaning everything I squirted LifeSeal under all around, cleaned the screws and resealed them and tightened everything back up.

    If yours is different then pictures would help. I'll dig through my archives to see if I can find any.

    Cheers,

    Mark
     


  6. viper

    viper

    Joined Jul 31, 2016
    128 posts, 14 likes
    Hunter 380
    US Cape Coral, Fl
    So Impressive. Initially I thought you were a bit crazy to take on this task. This is one of those times I don't mind being so very wrong...
    Regards,
    Viper
     


  7. Hayden Watson

    Hayden Watson

    Joined Apr 5, 2009
    525 posts, 105 likes
    Catalina '88 C30 tr/bs
    US Oak Harbor, WA
    Looking Good Mark.
    One thing I cannot remember you talking about is the electrical system. What is your plan for the wiring? Does it all need to be replaced or is it salvageable. I assume that all of your electronics are toast.
     


  8. B757Captain

    B757Captain

    Joined May 8, 2013
    217 posts, 111 likes
    Hunter 40
    US Dataw Island, SC
    I'm not entirely sure you ARE wrong! Haha. Actually I have had fun doing the repairs (mostly), learned tons along the way and it has kept me out of the bar! That's a good thing.

    I have come up with a relatively close analogy to what I'm doing - Imagine you went out and bought a '67 GTO. It's in pretty good shape (you think) and you go out and have fun with it for a few years, fixing it up a little here and there as time goes by. Then one day it gets creamed in an accident. On a cost basis it's totaled but it means a lot to you and can't be easily replaced. You decide to repair it and as you dig in you find some things under the skin that just aren't up to speed and really should be fixed right. Before you start repairs you figure out it really needs a frame-off restoration. While you're at it might as well throw in an LS9, 6-speed, etc. Is it worth it? In strict monetary terms, not a chance. But money can't be the only deciding factor in some cases, so you decide to go for it. That's where I'm at and in the end my (GTO) will be better than it ever could have been.

    Cheers,

    Mark
     


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  9. B757Captain

    B757Captain

    Joined May 8, 2013
    217 posts, 111 likes
    Hunter 40
    US Dataw Island, SC
    Most of the electrical system was ruined by salt water. I tried to salvage the AC and DC panels but in the end only the frames were reusable. New panels are cheaper than total component replacement of old panels. Batteries were shorted out. Most electrical appliances lost from corrosion. Most of the wiring and cables were ok, but I'm not taking any chances with that for several reasons.

    From the bottom up: Batteries - I had just installed 4 new Firefly house batteries and will go back with the same. Electrical panels: I'm going with a distributed panel system this time. Instead of one big AC panel and one big DC panel (I'm not a big fan of combining them), I will have a main AC and main DC distribution panel at the input source (batteries, shore power receptacles, inverter) and I'll run only feed wires from there to points in the boat such as the galley, aft cabin, forward cabin, topside, etc., to breaker panels where the individual feeds will branch. This will reduce the overall wire usage and hopefully make tracing down any future electrical problems easier. I'm replacing all the wiring. I could maybe reuse some of the old wires but why take the chance? Since all the old wiring was already cut to size and I'm changing the layout, I'd first have to cut down the wire to hopefully get past any corrosion, then try to mix and fit what's left. It's easier to start fresh, not that expensive (relatively), and I would never be totally comfortable with the old wiring anyway. All the rest, lights, appliances, etc., are going to be new. It was time for a refresh anyway!:)

    Electronics - Hmmmm. The chart plotter never went under water. But - it's old, won't take the new style chips and I really want the new MFD style system. I'm also looking at the I-Pad based systems. Autopilot - it was an older, but still good wheel pilot. I haven't tested it yet. If it's still good I might keep it as a backup to a new system. Sailing instruments - toast, but they had been troublesome prior to Matthew. Still working on what exactly to get there. Radar - dead before Matthew, new one in the works. It was the original from the PO and ancient. VHF - original, was good but not anymore (!) so new one there too. I already replaced the VHF antenna when the mast was down.

    Down below: Air Conditioning - ruined. Interestingly, the manufacturer (Flagship Marine) said send it to them, if they can't fix it they will give me credit on a new one - every little bit helps! Fridge and freezer - costs more to have them checked than to replace with new. Plus I'm redesigning the galley and they were going to get replaced anyway. Stove - ruined. Flat screen TV - ruined, but I was going to replace it with an LED unit anyway. Draws half the power of an LCD. Stereo - ruined. No big loss, it was a cheapy, but I hated losing my Bose speakers. That hurt! Battery charger - brand new Sterling - ruined. Voltage regulator - brand new Balmar, but I will send it in to be checked. It's sealed so should be ok. Inverter - when I found out my hurriedly ordered generator for the house was not going to be delivered before the hurricane I pulled the inverter off the boat, thinking I could hook it up to the car battery with the car running and use it for smaller load AC for the house. Worked like a charm so out of everything, I get to reuse the inverter! Score!

    I'm sure I missed a few things but that's the plan for now.

    Cheers,

    Mark
     


  10. B757Captain

    B757Captain

    Joined May 8, 2013
    217 posts, 111 likes
    Hunter 40
    US Dataw Island, SC
    I just re-read through this and must have had too many rum & cokes! Revision coming, I'm needed at the bar! :yeah:
     


  11. Crothers99

    Crothers99

    Joined Jan 17, 2010
    4 posts, 0 likes
    Hunter Legend 40
    US Edgewater
    Spot on with your description and I will try to replicate you solution to getting them caulked. Thanks

    Regards
     


  12. B757Captain

    B757Captain

    Joined May 8, 2013
    217 posts, 111 likes
    Hunter 40
    US Dataw Island, SC
    Thread maintenance & musings:

    Greetings from Japan!

    With lots of spare moments here (training that elsewhere takes about 2 months will take 6 months here) I finally found the time to transfer all the photos from the entire thread from photobucket to imgur. Strangely, PB ruined millions of forum threads around the interwebs but mine were still working. Not taking the chance though, so goodbye PB! If by chance anybody finds a bad pic or link let me know and I'll fix it. While changing all the photos I had a chance to revisit the project - I gotta say, I had forgotten just how much work it has been! Still worth it though - lots of fun too.

    With some spare time on my hands I have been planning and brainstorming all the work to come. One system that has plagued me (along with most of the boating community) is air conditioning. My old unit was a (pretty good) Flagship Marine 18,500 BTU unit. No reverse cycle but it had an electric heating element. Worked good and was still going strong until the hurricane. If I was just replacing a worn out unit, going back with the same one would be a no-brainer. No need to change any plumbing, ducting or wiring. But . . . . .

    Now I have the chance to build a system from the ground up, planned and properly built-in with no compromises to existing structures and such. So here's an outline of the pros and cons of the old a/c:

    Plenty powerful, moved lots of air without needing to resort to extra fans in the vee-berth and main salon. However, on hotter days I couldn't move enough air through the aft cabin without setting up a portable fan to help it along. Similarly, the heater worked fine until the temps got below freezing outside, then aux heat was necessary. The a/c was a little noisy but not too bad, maybe a little noisier than some of the newer ones on the market. Plumbing was not intrusive but the ducting took up a lot of space! I ran three 4" ducts along the starboard side (behind all manner of cabinetry) with one reduced to 2 1/2" going forward for the forward head and vee-berth. One 4" duct routed aft for the aft cabin, splitting into two 2 1/2" ducts/vents. Air, taking the path of least resistance, mostly cooled/heated the main cabin. Fair enough, it's the biggest area. And it had to have it's own dedicated 30 amp line.

    I had thought over the years of adding a second smaller a/c unit for the aft cabin but space was always an issue there. Now, maybe I can build one in. So now the question is: one big (maybe bigger - 20,000 BTU-ish) unit located in my original location, under the galley, with ductwork snaking to all the cabins, or:

    two units, a 16,000 BTU covering the main cabin and vee-berth, and an additional 6,000 BTU unit for the aft cabin and head, or (now this is where it gets a little crazy):

    A couple of these:

    [​IMG]

    http://www.noriahome.com/

    I've been following the development of this a/c unit for about 2 years and they are almost ready to get it on the market. It will be 5,000 BTU, and importantly for us boaters, significantly smaller and lightweight (comparatively). They can be removed and stowed when not in use, and draw a lot less power than existing a/c units. The only info so far states it draws 480 watts (115VAC). I have queries to the manufacturer for exact dimensions, weights and power requirements.

    My thought, based on the vague dimensions on their website, is that it might just slide into the larger portlight openings in the deck (the ones I converted to fixed ports). Maybe I could fab up a way to slide these a/c units into the openings and seal them, then remove them when the boat is underway. I'd probably need three total - two for the main cabin and one aft. The nice thing is one could be used away from the dock based on the stated power draw without a massive generator, inverter, or killing the batteries. A good solar array (planned) could keep the draw under control. Not talking about continuous a/c underway but sometimes it's nice to knock the heat down before bedtime!

    I've always got my eye on the ultimate goal, long-term cruising the Pacific, and that big power-hungry a/c unit under the galley becomes a useless appliance without a big generator. Which I don't plan on having. I still want a usable live-aboard boat though, prior to achieving Escape Velocity.

    I'm still looking, or trying to see, all the angles here, but being halfway around the world, all I can do is scheme & dream!
    Thoughts? Ideas?

    Cheers,

    Mark-san
     


  13. viper

    viper

    Joined Jul 31, 2016
    128 posts, 14 likes
    Hunter 380
    US Cape Coral, Fl
    I have not found that Ipads, Smart Phones and etc. work in bright sunlight on deck. In the cabin fine.

    Regards,

    Viper
     


  14. DayDreamer41

    DayDreamer41

    Joined Oct 29, 2016
    814 posts, 334 likes
    Hunter 41 DS
    Un Port Huron
    Mark,
    I often wonder about claims on energy efficiency, a BTU, is a BTU, is a BTU, it really doesn't matter how you slice it, it takes the same amount of energy to lower one pound of water one degree, ya just can't change the laws of physics.

    Would be interested to know what type of compressed gas they are using in order to extract the heat more efficiently.
     


  15. viper

    viper

    Joined Jul 31, 2016
    128 posts, 14 likes
    Hunter 380
    US Cape Coral, Fl
    I just checked out the Noair., I mean Noria.. Is that a hint?... Ok it is very light. But does not really exist yet. But March 2018, a year later than planned is almost here.

    It is much narrower and only 6" high, however it extends out the window a lot (which is where some of the size savings come from). Not going to work in a port on a boat. Would love to install in aft cabin and run off inverter at night in tropics when on the hook ( 500 watts solar, plus an additional battery bank, might and wind turbine). Just need to cool the aft cabin for sleep...

    A unit that you can set in the cockpit (a very small and efficient one), when on the hook, and that ducts the air into the port from the cabin to the aft stateroom would be perfect! All the electronic heat and heat transfer goes to the outside... and the noise. Again as a marine product, they would be able to charge 3 times more. The aft cabin is well insulated and actual cubic feet is quit small.

    I'm not sure there is much of a market for this product if not adapted for marine usa. Most will buy a $100 unit at Walmart. Being smaller really does not mater in home use. The windows are not so small in homes for size to be much of an issue and the efficiency is likely not that much better after all physics are the limiting factor and small can be less efficient in the case of cooling.

    I could make it work in the companion way... but then I'm trying to cool the whole boat and thats not going to happen.

    If this was adaptable for marine use, fit ports, then at 3 times the price thye would have something and it was low energy, really..

    Right now I think a 5,000 BTU Marine a/c unit in aft cabin is the best answer.... just where to put it, as they are very efficient.

    Regards.
    Viper
     


  16. LeslieTroyer

    LeslieTroyer

    Joined May 20, 2016
    1,607 posts, 532 likes
    Catalina 36 MK1
    US Everett, WA
    It takes less than a BTU to move it from a high temp stream to a lower temp stream. It all about defining system boundries correctly

    Mahalo
     


  17. Apex

    Apex

    Joined Jun 19, 2013
    739 posts, 79 likes
    Oday 28
    US Traverse City
    it would seem a permanent install would be preferred as opposed to moving in and out as needed. I would be more likely to use if I didn't have to install every night. Then there is the matter of uninstalling the unit and its associated hardward, then storing in a secure location each time in prep for sailing.
     


  18. DayDreamer41

    DayDreamer41

    Joined Oct 29, 2016
    814 posts, 334 likes
    Hunter 41 DS
    Un Port Huron
    According to their web site the unit uses .48 KW/hr for 5000 btu's or 1.2 KW/ton which is really no better than any other window air conditioner.
     


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  19. B757Captain

    B757Captain

    Joined May 8, 2013
    217 posts, 111 likes
    Hunter 40
    US Dataw Island, SC
    You're right there, Viper. I like the options available with the tablet interface but to be honest I haven't researched enough yet to know how much you can "freelance" a Garmin et al. MFD. I've got a few ideas for remote engine instrumentation, etc., that don't seem to be possible with marine MFDs unless you have the latest computer controlled engine management system. Lots of car guys have put systems together that are plug and play for oil pressure & temp, water temp, rpm that can be monitored via ipad. Don't know if I would be too happy about the necessity of a constant wifi either with the new gen ipads. Still researching and I've got some time before needing to settle on anything.

    Maverick
     


  20. B757Captain

    B757Captain

    Joined May 8, 2013
    217 posts, 111 likes
    Hunter 40
    US Dataw Island, SC
    I believe they said it was R-410. You're spot on, a BTU is a BTU but that doesn't mean someone couldn't build a better mousetrap. I have heard back from Noria about their mousetrap. See post below for details.