Really Really Bad Hunter Smile :(

Levin

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Apr 7, 2007
163
Hunter 340 San Diego
The boat is likely finished

Jon,

I'm going to echo what another poster stated: "I think it's time to get rid of that boat". I hate to say this but I agree that to do it right you need a new keel, and the cost of replacing the keel is probably excessive for your particular boat. My guess is you have a mid-80's Hunter 34 which is likely worth at best $15-20k, perhaps a bit more if everything inside is in really great shape. My other guess is that to fully replace a keel you are looking at at least $10k or more. It just seems silly to invest that much money in such an old boat.

Now you could go another route and try one of the repairs here that others are talking about but you would really be chancing things in my mind. There are few failures on a boat that really scare me. Most would be minor annoyances, or at worst something that would threaten the boat but you would have time to decide what to do (think thru-hull failure... boat begins flooding but you have time to react) but a keel failure... keel failure often = dead sailor. Would your keel fail? Who knows. But your keel looks to be very, very, badly damaged. Epoxy or concrete is just covering over the damage, neither is a structural solution.

But as is always said... your boat your decision.

Fair winds,
-Levin
 
Jun 4, 2004
844
Hunter 28.5 Tolchester, MD
Keel Joint repair

I found what appeared to be a real bad hunter smile. See Pictures they tell the rest of the two thousand words I could write. How bad is this.. not that I already haven't that out... but what should I do put fiberglass over it? Inside Everything looks OK where the keel bolts are attached in the cabin. Any thoughts or ideas would be appreciated. Thanks.. Jon

I would first ask the actual dimension between the fiberglas keel stub and the top of the cast iron keel itself. From my experience with '80's vintage Hunters, I'd estiimate the keel stub extends down about 4"-5" from the hull and the joint to the top of the cast iron keel should have been about 1/4" It's likely the original joint was filled with 5200, and the previous owner might have 'faired in' the keel joint with something like Marinetex or other epoxy filler. The actual internal joint is hard to see, but if it is no more than 3/8' and everything else is tight, it should not be a big deal to repair. The vertical surface of the keel and underside of hull seems to have been scraped or sand blasted to bare gel coat and the gel coat completely removed from a good portion of the top of the cast iron keel. Does the aft end of the keel show any similar separation? If not, 90% of the keel looks like it may still be tightly bolted and bonded to the hull aft of this joint with 5200 and fairing compound.

I'd start by using 60-80 grit sand paper and possibly a Dremel tool to clean out the two surfaces, the fiberglass portion of the underside of the keel stub and the top of the cast iron keel. Then measure the joint. if the actual clearance is 3/8"or less, I'd fill it with 5200. You may want to start by fairing in or replacing the gel coat to the original profile. I'd rebuild the missing gel coat with MarineTex, Then re-fill the joint with successive caulking gun applications of 5200. I've typically been successfull in replacing a 1/4" joint in one pass. However, I'd let it set up and re-apply 5200 untill you can 'trowel' a flush joint of the 5200 at the re-built surface of the gel coat. As another option you could use fiberglas cloth and West System epoxy to 'bond' the cast iron keel to the fiberglass keel stub, but the joint was originally intended to be a soft joint to provide minor movement.
 
Nov 6, 2006
9,885
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
OK, the cast iron on the keel goes up to meet the hull at the top.. Note the "flange" looking semicircles aft along the keel/hull joint. Those are cast-in ears that stick out of the cast iron and bolt into recesses in the hull.. That front gouge is a cut through the cast iron of the keel.. cast iron above and below the cut.. Structurally, I don't think there is a big problem as long as there are no cracks leading aft at the forward end of the gouge in the iron, as I noted in my previous post. There is a lot of meat left to take the loads and the center of effort is aft of the gouge.. If one were to hit a rock hard while going forward, it may be possible to initiate a crack in the gouge .. If one were concerned, a strap could be fabricated and bolted to the cast iron into drilled and tapped holes above and below the gouge on the leading edge. That would mechanically connect the leading edge so that the forward mount bolts could better take the load of smacking a rock at speed without initiating a crack. I wouldn't even begin to consider scrapping the boat. Yes that is some ugly damage, but it looks worse than it actually is ..
 

PGIJon

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Mar 3, 2012
856
Hunter 34 Punta Gorda
I thought I would post what the keel looked like before the reveal and after.

Nick, yes the boat is in Safe Harbor, go past the office then almost all the way down. make a left and it's the first boat by the gate that opens to the back road. Her bow is pointing to the bathroom & Laundry room.

Going aft, it appears to be OK, no other cracks. I'll have a better idea when we really clean it out. Whatever was between the keel and the fiberglass is now mush. It almost looks like wood gone bad.

I really don't want to get rid of the boat as some have suggested.... Should the surveyor have found this problem (2 years ago?) . Also, I don't know if the Insurance would cover the problem since I cannot identify when something might have happened to cause this problem.

I really appreciate the ideas that everyone if bringing to the table. Thanks All!....

Also, how hard is it to drop the keel? Could we just unscrew the bolts and lift the boat?
 

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Nov 5, 2009
62
Hunter 34 Quebec
Getting rid of the boat because of that??? C'mon, that's ridiculous.

From what can be seen on pictures damage really is not that bad, above the cut it is fiberglass from the hull and below it is the cast iron keel. This part has absolutly no structural role to it, you could cut away the keel in front of the flanges and it would be just as strong.

Inspect for related damages (removing all paint, loose gelcoat, keel flanges, bolts & plate, etc), but chances are that the groove was made by friction and not a choc load, so hopefully the rest will be unafected. The thin groove behind the large one is normal and not due to damage. Just rebuild the fiberglass of the hull (it might just be thick resin/compound in that corner, and no actual fiberglass) and fill the empty space with epoxy, leaving a gap to be filled by 5200. It appear to be very common on those H34 to develop crack in this exact spot if the gap between keel & hull is filled with rigid material.
 

VINN

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Aug 23, 2005
84
HUNTER H34 point lookout long island
don't worry about it too much, mine was vey similar 14 years ago when I bought mine. there's allot of movement of the keel at each end and most epoxy jobs cant flex enough to keep up and eventually crack open and fall out of the groove around the keel. the quick cheap and easy method is filling up the area with a moldable marine epoxy stick after cleaning all the rust up. than cover the area up with west system 6x10 which can handle the flexing better than plain epoxy. just paint and go. the best fix is to bead blast the whole keel down to bare metal and do over the whole seam around the keel with west 6x10. then coat keel with por15 and paint. the keel will look brand new after this and be stiffer. the only thing better is to include the hull and barrier coat the whole bottom and keel together as one piece. that's been too expensive for me up to now, but maybe one day. once you seal the keel up it last several seasons with just minor touchup. welcome to the club...
 

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PGIJon

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Mar 3, 2012
856
Hunter 34 Punta Gorda
Thanks Vinn.. Since I liked Alan's idea for covering with fiberglass, I'm glad you pointed out the 6x10. I've never fiberglassed before so all help I can get is very appreciated. Looks like you did a really nice job. BTW as a matter of redoing the boat we are planning to strip down the keel to bare metal.

Thank you Claude, Claude and others for the reassurances. If it does look like a forward only structural problem I may take Claude's (Kloudie1) advice on the strap advice (hoping that it won't be necessary)

I'll be taking some measurements and post them once the area is better cleaned up.
All advice is greatly appreciated.
 
Jan 12, 2011
930
Hunter 410 full time cruiser
the term lipstick on a pig comes to mind, but when the lipstick on a pig rubs off it doesn't turn turtle
 

splax

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Nov 12, 2012
692
Hunter 34 Portsmouth
I like the strap idea. It will be important to use strong and flexible (not brittle) material for the strap. A concern might be the unloading of the strap and the shock
load it puts on the anchoring as it reloads.
 
Dec 19, 2006
5,809
Hunter 36 Punta Gorda
Today T your boat

I stopped at the boat yard today and talked with George and he said really not that bad and he is very good to do the repair.
When I was at the yard last year I got see lots of his work and
his crew and he knows boats and a real expert to do your repair.
I heard nothing but good reviews on his work and when all done you will be happy and safe.
nick
 

PGIJon

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Mar 3, 2012
856
Hunter 34 Punta Gorda
Nick... Thank you for stopping by.... I think George turned out to be a good choice. So far I've really like the work he has done. I can't wait to get it back in the water and start sailing again. I'll be posting the repairs and how it was done. That must be a 50+ mile bike ride for you! Wow.. I'm impressed! -Jon
 
Dec 19, 2006
5,809
Hunter 36 Punta Gorda
36 miles

No I meet up with the Coastal Cruisers Bicycle club at the Rotondo Park and brealk up into different speed groups and do around 30 to 50 miles at speeds
of 15-17-18 MPH.
Some start at the trail behind the public's and ride to the park off rotondo blvd every tuesday.
I came by car to the yard.
Nick
 
Dec 12, 2005
128
Hunter 34 Lowestoft
The fibreglass part is the sump for the shower inside the boat.

The gap is the same on every 34. Its just filled with body filler normally but with corrosion of the keel the body filler can come loose. Its not structural and not suppossed to add any strength as the keel is held on by big bolts through 4 flange plates further back.

Mine had a line across but the filler was well bonded to the fibreglass.

I would suggest cleaning the rust off as much as possible with an angle grinder then paint the keel with zinc rich paint. grind off again so you leave the zinc in the crevices but the rest of the keel is clean. Coat with 2 coats of west epoxy to both the keel and the grp. Then fill the gap with 5200 sealant to provide a flexible seal.

Worked on mine 8 years ago and no problems since.
 

PGIJon

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Mar 3, 2012
856
Hunter 34 Punta Gorda
There were a number of comments regarding the size of the opening so I wanted to upload this picture showing the opening and a tape measure....

I wonder if the Keel bolts are fully tightened....
 

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Nov 6, 2006
9,885
Hunter 34 Mandeville Louisiana
PGIJon, your original post picture looks like the gouge is about 4-6 inches below that 1/4" gap that really is the gap under the shower area. The gap in the original post looks like it is an inch or more across?? is that the same gap that we are discussing?
 

braol

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Apr 16, 2014
348
Hunter 27 Rebel 16 Great Lakes Naval Base, IL
If you aren't going to do that you need to drop the keel, repair the stub, fair the keel properly, replace the keel bolts, reinstall, then maybe even fiberglass the assembly.
I agree. Only a proper repair will do. In the end, your life and those you sail with might depend on it. If the keel goes you will either immediately capsize (if your sails are up) or sink. Neither are worth doing a cheap repair over.
 
Dec 19, 2006
5,809
Hunter 36 Punta Gorda
George

Hi when I spoke to george the pro you are having do the job
said he did not think it was that bad and seen worse.
But he did say to check the keel bolts and make sure they
are tighten with a good breaker bar or ratchet with socket.
I think the problem is it is a cast iron keel and they need a
lot of attention here in Florida because we don't normally
haul every year like up north.
I spoke with a friend who has a cast iron keel and it always
has the rust come back and maybe the repair was not done
properly and was covered up with paint while what ever was
used was not the right caulking like 5200 and just absorbed
water and now have that gap that shows in the photo.
I think george will do a very good job but maybe have a diver
clean your boat and check the keel often.
Nick