Raritan PHII Leaking Around Joker Valve Flange
- Thread starter dmcantor
- Start date
So I have a temporary fix. I have butyl tape on board. I used this as a gasket. I placed a thin piece, rolled to the Diamater of a pipe cleaner. Then I formed this around the circumference of the joker valve. I also form a thin piece around the inside of the collar. Works so far. This is only a temporary fix.
In addition I would like to thank everyone for their suggestions, especially Peggy Hall. We have your book on board and and refer to it often. Thanks
Peggy's and Tim's comments regarding the hose are probably correct. Because there are only 2 bolts, if their is significant strain on the hose the pressure will be uneven. Common problem. You should not have to force the flange into alignment.
If you are using that very stiff white hose it is hard to get the hose clamps tight enough to stop leaking. A screw driver won't get it, you need to use a socket or wrench.
I am having the same problem. I rebuilt my Raritan PH II including the joker valve and now water (hopefully only water!) spays out of the fitting. I believe the problem is the discharge hose doesn't line up perfectly and the sanitation hose is so stiff it is hard to bend. If I tighten the bolts to force it to line up it distorts the flange. I never had a problem before but who knows. I think I will try a new elbow, maybe the old one is weak and bends to easily. My other question is, why would water "spray" out when I pump the head? I would guess that there shouldn't be that much pressure and am thinking maybe there is blockage somewhere on the outflow plumbing. Any thoughts?
If you didn’t first install the joker valve and tighten the discharge fitting screws before attaching the hose, do that. You could be right that the hose is putting some force on the joker valve/ discharge fitting joint. If you did separate the hose first, you may need to adjust the hose (length, angle, etc.).
Greg
Greg
Replace the discharge fitting with a straight or 90--whichever is needed to take the stress off the discharge fitting. If the hose is too stiff for that to solve the problem, it may be necessary to replace the discharge line with hose that's more flexible. Raritan SaniFlex has proven to be 100% odor permeation resistant and is so flexible it can be bent like hairpin without kinking. Defender has it for <$10/ft.
--Peggie
There IS that much pressure on the downstroke of a PHII that has a new joker valve. One of the things that makes the PHII the top rated manual toilet is that, when working to spec, it moves twice as much waste per stroke as other manual toilets. Why does the condition of the joker valve matter? You'll find that info in my article "joker valve 101" in the archives here and also in my book.
--Peggie
Revisit to a thread that is not a "joke".....
I replaced the approx. 15 year old PH2 pump this summer. The new 90 degree fitting and new joker are refusing to seal.
No matter how gently I tighten those bolts some water leaks out.... we have not yet "used" the toilet, due to concerns about mopping up waste.
According to a tech at Raritan I may have overtightened the two bolts and "warped the flange" or words to that effect. I may have to reuse the old pump assembly and the old joker valve or maybe put the old valve on the new pump. I have never had this problem with a PH2 model, in twenty five years, and this only the second head we have ever had in this '88 boat. Normally these are a top rated product, but now I am having doubts.
Anyone know if Raritan might have had a temporary glitch in their QC ?
Also, I am about to replace the hose that attaches to the head with a section of new "Saniflex" to reduce any possible tension off of the joint on the joker valve fitting.
Thanks much,
Loren
I replaced the approx. 15 year old PH2 pump this summer. The new 90 degree fitting and new joker are refusing to seal.
No matter how gently I tighten those bolts some water leaks out.... we have not yet "used" the toilet, due to concerns about mopping up waste.
According to a tech at Raritan I may have overtightened the two bolts and "warped the flange" or words to that effect. I may have to reuse the old pump assembly and the old joker valve or maybe put the old valve on the new pump. I have never had this problem with a PH2 model, in twenty five years, and this only the second head we have ever had in this '88 boat. Normally these are a top rated product, but now I am having doubts.
Anyone know if Raritan might have had a temporary glitch in their QC ?
Also, I am about to replace the hose that attaches to the head with a section of new "Saniflex" to reduce any possible tension off of the joint on the joker valve fitting.
Thanks much,
Loren
YOu're the only glitch in your PHII pump...90 % of leaks are caused by over-tightening the bolts. The flange on the joker valve is the gasket that seals the discharge fitting connection to the pump. Over-tighten the bolts creates a pucker in the rubber around the bolt, causing it to leak....and the more you tighten the bolts, the worse it leaks. With any luck, the new pump and joker valve haven't been in place long enough for the puckers to become permanent...but if they have, you'd only need a new joker valve to solve the problem.
Start by tightening the bolts--both of them--only hand-tight...flush to check for leaks. If there are any, tighten both ONLY 1/4 turn more...check for a leak again. Repeat till no more leak.
You really shouldn't have had to replace a 15 yr old PHII pump...they easily last 20+ years when kept well lubricated, joker valve is replaced at least annually and gets a rebuild kit every 5-6 years (approx $60). I'v seen several older than 25 years. There are two different PHII rebuild kits--one for toilets built before 6/92 (PHRKII) and one for toilets built after 6/92 (PHRKIIC) and it's important to use the right kit because there are parts in both that are not intechangeable.
As for why you should replace the joker valve at least annually...
Most people think that the only thing the joker valve does is act as a check valve to stop backflow from returning to the toilet or odor from the tank from escaping through the toilet. But that's not a joker valve's most important function...in fact, the joker valve is THE single most important replaceable part in a manual toilet.
Here’s how the discharge half of the pump works: On the upstroke of the piston, a vacuum is created in the area beneath the piston. This causes the joker valve to close tightly, and the flapper valve beneath the pump to open, allowing some of the contents of the toilet bowl to be drawn into the bottom half of the pump. Then, on the down stroke of the piston, the flapper valve is slammed shut, and the effluent is forced out of the bottom of the pump, through the joker valve, and off down the line. But when the joker valve becomes worn and/or there's a buildup of sea water minerals on it, it can no longer seal tightly on the upstroke of the piston...less vacuum is generated when you pump it. And as it becomes more worn less and less vacuum, till finally the bowl contents simply move up and down a bit, but don't go anywhere. Sometimes the flapper valve needs to be replaced too, which is why toilets should also be rebuilt at least every 5-6 years as PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE.
You prob'ly won't notice the loss of efficiency at first because it's so gradual...same as we don't see that we've gotten a little older than we were yesterday when we look in the mirror each morning. But I guarantee you that if it's been two years or longer since you replaced the joker valve, you need to pump the toilet at least 50% more times to move the bowl contents to the tank or all the way out the thru-hull....IF they're getting there at all any more.
--Peggie
Start by tightening the bolts--both of them--only hand-tight...flush to check for leaks. If there are any, tighten both ONLY 1/4 turn more...check for a leak again. Repeat till no more leak.
You really shouldn't have had to replace a 15 yr old PHII pump...they easily last 20+ years when kept well lubricated, joker valve is replaced at least annually and gets a rebuild kit every 5-6 years (approx $60). I'v seen several older than 25 years. There are two different PHII rebuild kits--one for toilets built before 6/92 (PHRKII) and one for toilets built after 6/92 (PHRKIIC) and it's important to use the right kit because there are parts in both that are not intechangeable.
As for why you should replace the joker valve at least annually...
Most people think that the only thing the joker valve does is act as a check valve to stop backflow from returning to the toilet or odor from the tank from escaping through the toilet. But that's not a joker valve's most important function...in fact, the joker valve is THE single most important replaceable part in a manual toilet.
Here’s how the discharge half of the pump works: On the upstroke of the piston, a vacuum is created in the area beneath the piston. This causes the joker valve to close tightly, and the flapper valve beneath the pump to open, allowing some of the contents of the toilet bowl to be drawn into the bottom half of the pump. Then, on the down stroke of the piston, the flapper valve is slammed shut, and the effluent is forced out of the bottom of the pump, through the joker valve, and off down the line. But when the joker valve becomes worn and/or there's a buildup of sea water minerals on it, it can no longer seal tightly on the upstroke of the piston...less vacuum is generated when you pump it. And as it becomes more worn less and less vacuum, till finally the bowl contents simply move up and down a bit, but don't go anywhere. Sometimes the flapper valve needs to be replaced too, which is why toilets should also be rebuilt at least every 5-6 years as PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE.
You prob'ly won't notice the loss of efficiency at first because it's so gradual...same as we don't see that we've gotten a little older than we were yesterday when we look in the mirror each morning. But I guarantee you that if it's been two years or longer since you replaced the joker valve, you need to pump the toilet at least 50% more times to move the bowl contents to the tank or all the way out the thru-hull....IF they're getting there at all any more.
--Peggie
Although SaniFlex shouldn't allow any sideways pull off the discharge fitting, major changes in temperature COULD maybe create some expansion and contraction in the bend that causes at least a slight pull...and winter isn't far off. So keep a close eye on it, and if you see any, consider installing a 90 or 45, whichever is needed. I admit I'm totally spitballing with that, but it's hard to go too far wrong erring on the side of caution and you have nothing to lose by keeping an eye on it.
--Peggie