Raritan Dry/Flush valve turns very hard

[Joe5893]

I searched the forums to see if anyone else had this problem and I didn't find (or overlooked) anything quite like I am experiencing. I just purchased a boat and it has a Raritan PHII head. The Dry/Flush valve turns very hard when going in either direction. I am not trying to use the pump while turning the valve. The head itself functions great otherwise. Dry pumps the bowl dry and flush adds water as it should. There are no leaks around the pump or anywhere else that I can see.

I have never owned a boat with a fixed head and I have never been on a boat with a Raritan head. Is the valve supposed to be hard to turn from dry to flush and vice versa? If it isn't, how do I fix this problem? I saw several posts about rebuilding the pump or buying the replacement pump unit. Hoping for an easier fix. I also checked Raritan's website and nothing in the operating the head or trouble shooting sections addressed this issue either.


Thanks,

Joe

 

[py26129]

I had the same issue. Bottom line is that you will need to disassemble the dry/flush valve and lubricate it. This should be part of your annual maintenance schedule. Make sure you use a grease that stands up to a wet environment and does not affect the o-rings, such as Superlube.

One more thing, before disassembling the valve, marl it's position against the housing. It took me many tried to put it back together correctly.

In all its a pretty easy job.

Cheers

Matt

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

You can download the PHII owners manual from the Raritan site here:
PH II Owner’s Manual See page 7 for flush valve trouble-shooting and repair.

You not only need to lube the flush valve assembly...you need to lube the whole pump. Anything thin enough to pour down the toilet will just wash out in a few flushes, but if you want that never ending job every few weeks, put a tablespoon of veggie oil in the bowl and flush it. But if you'd rather only have to lube the toilet once or twice a year, it's a 15 minute job that's easy to do: pick up a tube of SuperLube thick Teflon grease (ONLY thick grease in a tube...not a spray or a liquid)....Ace Hardware carries it. Remove the pump from the base--requires removing 4 bolts. Stick the nozzle on the tube up into the pump and give it a HEALTHY squeeze. Replace the pump on the base...pump the toilet in the dry mode a few times to spread the grease all over the inside of the pump cylinder...you're done. I'd do this every spring as part of spring recommissioning.

If the toilet is at least 5 years old and you don't know when it was last rebuilt--if ever--you'd be smart to do it now (a single use tube of SuperLube is included in the rebuild kit).

The PHII has been the top rated toilet in its class for nearly 30 years...keep it properly lubricated and rebuild it every 5-6 years and it will easily provide at least 20 years of trouble free service.

 

[Joe5893]

Thanks for the advice. I was able to find the grease at Ace. I plan on lubing the pump this upcoming weekend. Based on the parts diagram from Raritan it looks like while the pump is removed from the base it would be an ideal time to replace the joker valve too. The Raritan red joker valve seems to have a bad reputation based on some reviews I have read (especially the West Marine reviews). Should I use a different mfg's valve like the Jabsco valve or stick with the Raritan valve. Any opinions are welcome as I have never replaced a joker valve before.

Joe

 

[py26129]

I have a red one in my head, for 3 seasons now and it is working just fine. It sees regular weekend use and a 3 week vacation each year. 4 persons on board.

Cheers

Matt

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Nothing wrong with Raritan joker valves.

Replacing the joker valve requires removing the discharge fitting from the pump. The slit should be aligned vertically. The flange on the joker is the gasket that seals that connection. When you put the fitting back on the pump, tighten enough to create a seal, but do NOT OVER-tighten it...that will pucker the flange, causing the very leaky connection you're trying to prevent.

Joker valves should be replaced at LEAST every 2 years.

Btw...SuperLube grease is the best lubricant for any machinery that stays wet--winches, windlass, y-valves, seacocks, etc... A little goes a long way, so that tube should last you several years.

 

[py26129]

Just to be clear, I was not advocating not changing the Joker valve on a regular basis. Just providing some anecdotal evidence that the reviews may not always be on the money.

Cheers

Matt

 

[fr220]

thanks, to the poster who provided the link to the manufacture's operating manual.

cheers

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Just to be clear, I was not advocating not changing the Joker valve on a regular basis. Matt

I DO advocated changing it on a regular basis...at least every two years, annually if the boat is used year round. And you would too, if you knew why...but like most people, you think that the only thing the joker valve does is acts as a check valve to stop backflow from returning to the toilet or odor from the tank from escaping through the toilet. But that's not a joker valve's most important function...in fact, the joker valve is THE single most important replaceable part in a manual toilet. Vic Willman, who was Raritan's tech services manager for more than 40 years (now retired) explained it in this piece:

JOKER VALVE 101
Here’s how the discharge half of the pump works: On the upstroke of the piston, a vacuum is created in the area beneath the piston. This causes the joker valve to close tightly, and the flapper valve beneath the pump to open, allowing some of the contents of the toilet bowl to be drawn into the bottom half of the pump. Then, on the down stroke of the piston, the flapper valve is slammed shut, and the effluent is forced out of the bottom of the pump, through the joker valve, and off down the line. But when the joker valve becomes worn and/or there's a buildup of sea water minerals on it, it can no longer seal tightly on the upstroke of the piston...less vacuum is generated when you pump it. And as it becomes more worn less and less vacuum, till finally the bowl contents simply move up and down a bit, but don't go anywhere. Sometimes the flapper valve needs to be replaced too, which is why toilets should also be rebuilt at least every 5-6 years as PREVENTIVE MAINTENANCE.

You prob'ly won't notice the loss of efficiency at first because it's so gradual...same as we don't see that we've gotten a little older than we were yesterday when we look in the mirror each morning. But I guarantee you that if it's been two years or longer since you replaced the joker valve, you need to pump the toilet at least 50% more times to move the bowl contents all the way to the tank or the thru-hull....IF they're getting there at all any more.

 

[Ron20324]

.... The Raritan red joker valve seems to have a bad reputation based on some reviews I have read ... /quote]

I just got the Raritan red to put in my Jabsco. There was also a black one on the dealer's shelf- same part number as i recall. Could not tell which one was newer, so I got the red so i could see it was not a Jabsco.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

They recently switched from pink to black, so the black one would have been the newer one. But the switch was recent enough that it wouldn't matter.

 

[Charlie98117]

Interesting thread, a new project has just been added to the list. Bought my first boat with indoor plumbing a year ago and the only record I have says the toilet was rebuilt in '92. Guess it's a bit overdue.

It is working fine but going through info online I note they say the housing changed after June '92. The receipt in my file is dated 5/22/92 so I'm wondering if it makes sense to just upgrade to the new pump housing as long as I'm in the rebuild business?

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

Lubrication will do a lot to free up the dry/flush knob...and is necessary to keep the pump working smoothly. Without it, friction wears out the rubber parts in the pump.

It wasn't just the housing that changed...there were some changes in the pump too. If the toilet doesn't show signs of abuse or isn't badly worn, a rebuild should be all it needs. You'll want to be sure to get the right kit 'cuz there are different rebuild kits for pre-6/92 and post 6/92, and only about half the parts in 'em are interchangeable. The one you need is PHIIRK. (Post 6/92 needs kit PHIIRKC) The owners manual for the older version is no longer on the Raritan website but should still be available from Raritan. If you don't have one, call Raritan tech support: 800-352-5630

 

[py26129]

Peggie

Thank you for posting the explanation of the role the joker valve plays in keeping the pump working efficiently. I learned something, which is always a good thing.

Cheers

Matt

 

[capta]

Replacing the joker valve requires removing the discharge fitting from the pump. The slit should be aligned vertically.

I've noticed on the Raritan pic of the internals of the PHII, the joker valve is aligned horizontally.

 

[Peggie Hall HeadMistress]

So it is. So the question now becomes, have they given me bad info all these years, or did the artist get it wrong and nobody at Raritan noticed? Or a third possibility: it really doesn't matter?

 

[jssailem]

Do not know but will offer an idea. The vertical position looks like it would reduce turbulence as the effluent goes through he valve. When the valve closes there will not be a cup that might catch effluent.

 

[capta]

My thought was that if aligned vertically it might get a small bit stuck in the lower end of the opening when pumping dry, whereas horizontally it has no bottom corner or crack for something to lodge in????

 

[Michael Davis]

Vertical would be hard to show opening in a drawing. Cann't remember how I put mine in but it works. ( 50% chance of being horizontal )

 

[Ron20324]

So it is. So the question now becomes, have they given me bad info all these years, or did the artist get it wrong and nobody at Raritan noticed? Or a third possibility: it really doesn't matter?

I always do vertical, thinking there would be equal pressure on both sides. Horizontal, and there could be more on the upper lip than the lower and distort. Seen it happen.