Raising the Mast on a Hunter 23.5 - Looking for Advice

[CrispyCringle]

I have a 23.5 and just recently raised mine, so it’s fresh in my mind. Looks like you have it rigged correctly.

A few comments-
-It seems like you have a lot of stretch in the jib halyard. Seems unusual for it to change the position of the gin pole so much after you start to try and lift the mast. You will need the gin pole to stay in that initial position or you won’t be able to pull the mast all the way up. Otherwise, the main sheet blocks will come together before it is fully raised. I have a cleat on the mast that I tie the jib halyard off at. You should not need to use any of the wenches to tension the halyard.
-Can you partially lift the mast by hand? Besides the weight, it should freely raise up. I don’t mean all the way up. Just that it should move freely.
-Does the line for the mainsheet freely run through the blocks? If the line is too large a diameter it will bind.

Seems like something is binding up. When I do this I have a friend get the lift started by pushing the mast up from the cockpit. After that it’s all me up on the bow pulling in the main sheet set-up, and it doesn’t take a lot of force after the initial lift.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Jen G sent me a private email and I have responded back with my contact information. Will need a longer jib sheet though to do this by herself and if original needs to be replaced anyway b

 

[CrispyCringle]

Looking at your videos again. I would suggest setting a good tension on the jib halyard, and tieing that off. Then move to the bow deck right by the main sheet set up. Raise it from there, while on deck. This way if you need to stop mid-lift to untangle a stay or something, you can be sure the jammer is in place and you will be able to release it later (with your foot). You will have a lot more control than you will having a line go back to the cockpit. That in its self will cause a lot of drag in the setup. I say that because it looks like the way you have the lines in the video you were trying to raise the mast while back in the cockpit. Maybe I’m mistaken. Also, if your doing this by yourself, you may want to start the mast up by supporting it on a folding ladder in the cockpit. Its the first 10-15 degrees of movement that are the hardest. But you can do it without the ladder, just makes it easier.

 

[GBGraham]

I have just lowered our mast today with the wife's assistance, one thing I find very awkward and a tad annoying is the main sheet jammer buried in the chain locker. Has anyone done a mod to make life easier in this area, may be with one or two long D shackles, or better?

 

[Scotty147]

It appears you have the halyard rigged so it comes back to the cockpit. This can't work as you will just pull the halyard and not the mast. the halyard should be cleated on the small cleat on the mast just below where the halyard exits the mast. Once this is done the mast will go up easily.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Need help folks. Is the mast raise pole for the 23.5 suppose a one inch stainless steel pole or a larger aluminum mast raise pole?

Second question. Forgot what year the jib halyard was led aft to cockpit. Anyone know. Photos would be helpful as I am working with this lady.

Also a photo of the appropriate attachment of the bridle wire to the welded eye on the stanchion please as well

 

[CrispyCringle]

CD,
My 23.5 is a 1995 and the jib halyard goes to the cockpit. You can see in the pic it is the black line. The dirty white is the main halyard and the other is the keel haul.



I think the raising pole is 1" stainless, but thats just off memory. Why do you question Jen G's pole and bridle set-up?

 

[isaksp00]

GB, I have a 23 which lacks a factory mast raising system so the PO rigged his own. He added a very robust rather thick walled aluminum tube to extend the trailer tubing that supports the bow winch, making it about as high as the deck at the bow. He put a stout screw eye that was welded to be closed through the tube maybe 6 in below the deck level. The block and tackle that pulls the mast up is shackled to that eye, not inside the anchor locker. He rigged a dedicated b and t system rather than using the main sheet tackle, with a rather long line. I run that line back along the deck to a jib sheet winch (he used to tie it to his car to pull up the mast - I'd never do that!)

 

[Jen G]

I ran everything to the cockpit so I could get under the mast to give a little lift while pulling to raise. The jib halyard was originally cleated but because there was so much slack as I tried to raise her, I hoped pulling the jib simultaneously to counter might hold the tension, thus pulling from both at the same time (which I know is self defeating but the only way to try to keep tension to prevent the pole from just flopping forward and damaging the area around the hole in the mast where it is inserted).

I'm making a shopping list to replace the halyard (and other lines possibly) on the theory that the PO used cheap, stretchy rope that is useless. Once the order is placed, I have less than no idea how to replace the halyards etc.

I was hoping to save those lessons for later on... CD (Crazy & WONDERFUL Dave) mentioned that it looks like I am ***missing*** something crucial to the process based on watching the videos (hardware at the base of the mast?). Which means identifying this to add it to the list as well. I could really use photos of what she's SUPPOSED to look like fully rigged (better than the ones in the manual and the McDowell manual although those have been my bibles thus far, they are still a little greek until I get more practical application. I was hoping this would happen AFTER I had her in the water a while & met some wonderful sailors in my area who might come aboard and trade their mentoring for my bbq and/or a free O'Day 22 (long story) for good measure! C'est la vie!.

Below are the stills I sent him showing the pole inserted - it just doesn't seem to have any real "fit" to it - it doesn't "sit" like it is in it's place. Maybe that's just me? (We build our log home ourselves/no kit, so when something doesn't "fit" something's wrong - I'm not used to things not "feeling" like they are "seated").

Evidently, I have a long way to go before I set sail with her for the first time. I'd sure like to get her wet as soon as possible and work on projects as we go but safety first...

Thanks for all your help guys!!!

 

[GBGraham]

I would say photo one is the correct position in the mast to start the raise or lower.
I know exactly what you mean about a sloppy fit. I spent some time looking into mast base and scratching my head for the first time.
I don't know if it's a standard thing but my pole has two opposite sides ground out to about an inch along the pole to make a jaw but I can't see any apparent reason for this.

 

[caverun]

Just checking that your pole has the notch cut in the end to fit around the internal sail track channel in the mast? That helps stabilize it horizontally, less so vertically. Here is the gin pole drawing for the 23.5.

 

[CrispyCringle]

The pole looks right to me. It is floppy, but thats just the way it is. It does work under tension. (Side note: Do not push on it when raising the mast!) As for missing hardware on the base of the mast- there is not a lot to it. The mast has a pin and a cotter ring, and thats about it. Im not sure what Dave means.

I think you can still do this, as is, Jen G. Start with the pole secured and tipped toward the top of the mast10-20 inches. Tie off the jib halyard to the cleat on the mast. Make sure the side bridles are in place, and like mentioned before, get up on the bow of the boat and start pulling on the main sheet set-up. If you have a helper in the cockpit, have them raise the mast as far as they can reach it. After that it will be easy. Be sure you have the pin ready for the forestay. And about 3/4 of the way up, stop and check (or better, have a helper check) the side stays for binding at the chain plates.

I dont think it would have ever worked, trying to raise it from the cockpit. In the pics and vids, the main sheet and the halyard both take a few bends over an edge or corner while on the way to the cockpit. That is a huge binding factor when under tension.

Im sure your boat will thank you for a new jib halyard. Its easy to replace, but another subject. And I cant see how it will matter if the mast is up or down for that.

Good luck! And hopefully the next report is Success!!

PS: Check to make sure you have a topping lift secured to the top of the mast. Its a small line, 5/16", that supports the main spar when not under sail.

ALSO, if you have the boom vang block set-up, there is a small thing (cant think of the term right now) that goes on the mast pin that the boom vang attaches to. It needs to go on as the pin is slid in place. If you dont have that you can cheat with some line or strap later on. Not a show stopper at this point.

Just trying to save you the hassle of raising it and then having to lower it again.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

I think the original mast raise pole was aluminum vs the 1 inch as pole the lady received. I am making a trip this weekend to see one and plan to make measurements and take photos. That said the hole in the mast would be too big and would allow too much play at the base. No comments yet folks.

Looking at the photos the pole Jen has was too far angled toward the top creating issues to start off with. Secondly the main sheet line is not long enough to raise with the winch and tying snort line too it is unsafe.
Third the attachment of the pelican hood to the eye strap may be backwards which might cause bending that eye strap which I have seen in the past.

Until I report back and additional photos from Jen come in. I would ask no one respond until I report back so not to confuse this lady. Thanks

 

[Kermit]

...Until I report back and additional photos from Jen come in. I would ask no one respond until I report back so not to confuse this lady. Thanks

Well dang. That’s no fun at all. Hrumph.

 

[CrispyCringle]

I think your way over thinking this CD. Its easy to tell if the mast raising pole is right or not. Caverun posted the dimensions of one in post #53 of this thread. The only thing that is really special about it is the odd end that goes into the mast. It needs that odd cut-out so that it rides on the corresponding metal ridge that you can see when you look inside the hole in the mast. Im sure mine is a factory pole, and it flops around quite a bit until the lines are tightened up.

As for the odd angle that Jen G shows the pole in one of her vids, there is a very good chance that that is from trying to wench the halyard and pull on the main sheet at the same time from the cockpit. That will cause a lot of issues. And will completely throw off the correct setting. She needs to tie off the halyard on the cleat that is on the mast, starboard and below where the halyard exits the mast.

I would try a "do-over done right" and see what she gets. Its a sailboat, not a rocket. And I only say that because I so over thought about the mast raise the first time I did it. It kind of a non event after you do it once.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

Crispycringly;

You forgot that I designed the mast raise system and there are questions I need answers for before responding for example the color coding for halyards was my suggestion and in this case the red line is the main halyard when is was designed to be blue, original mast raise pole was a larger tubular aluminum pole , placement of pelican hook attachment and the list goes on. The reason why I asked no further comments was to confirm a lot of issues that were questionable plus the lady was getting confused. There is only one way which is the right way and until I have the answers as to what is going on we do not need someone getting hurt. I am traveling this weekend to look at a 23.5 as a memory reminder to me to include the original mast carrier pole on my own nickle and then I will go in depth.

 

[CrispyCringle]

There are so many things wrong with the above paragraph. But whatever. I didnt realize that you CD are the only one that can help in this matter. Amazing. We await your final word.

 

[Crazy Dave Condon]

You will find when satisfied I will get back and repot back. But one thing the original mast raise pole was aluminum as an example. The original plan for this boat came from me as well but feel to doubt me anytime. I also approach this in an investigative way as I use to be a former investigator.

I think enough has been said until next week. Then I will report back as there are other issues yet not noted that are being addressed.
Also a friend has graciously allowing me to look st his mast raise system whom I worked with last fall taking his bost out of the water and look forward to a long time friendship.

By the way the color of that sunbrella on your boat I recall is Persian Green which is what was used originally

 

[Jen G]

Thank you EVERYONE, and CrispyCringle for all your thoughts, ideas & comments! I really appreciate such a wonderful community! Crazy Dave has REALLY RISEN to the call here - and given he was an original designer and seems to have access to knowledge & resources that are just incredible, I am going to take him up on his generous guidance! He is a fount of wisdom! Given I am almost 30 years since my last sailing days so basically a complete newbie - his efforts to prevent me from becoming overwhelmed and confused are probably VERY wise at this stage. I'm sure when he thinks I ready to take my training wheels off, he will encourage more interaction for me with all of you all! In the meantime, it really is just WONDERFUL to know there are so many wonderful H23.5 enthusiasts willing to help guide me! Fairwinds & fallowing seas for now!

 

[Henry Scurlock]

From Crazy Dave https://forums.sailboatowners.com/index.php?members/crazy-dave-condon.62902/

@Jen G sent me a private message as she was having difficulty raising and lowering the mast. I forgot what thread this was in but requested all of you to allow time to investigate and help this lady who recently purchased the boat which all of you were kind to allow time for a fuller response. In addition, I was going on vacation but a few days prior was advised by the cardiologist I needed some testing which threw me into a tail spin. However, I told the Doc I was still going to bike a former RR and kayak down thee lazy river. Heck if I croaked, pardon the pun you old green frog, that was on my bucket list. Testing next week. Now back to the this.

What threw me off were the photos of gear to include a smaller purchase block and tackle and a comment about the new supplied mast raising pole as the one on the boat was missing. First the 23.5/19/26 used aluminum poles and I could not remember the diameter. For the 23.5 it was a 1 inch aluminum thinking it was the larger diamerter pole used on the 26. Well that was answered so the correct pole is one inch diameter and the new one which of course is the better one is stainless steel. However, there is a question if the curved end was grinded enough to go into the hole buttressed up against the slot inside the mast. It appears that additional grinding needed to be done and all I am waiting for is Jen to report back it is done. As of today nothing heard back as yet. Remember there was an issue during the 90's with different masts and that could have caused the problem. Anyway, I did send her a photo of a 260 mast raise pole as a template which to use.

The next issue was the block and tackle as the purchase/attachment pieces/length did not correspond to that of the Schaeffer 4 to 1 purchase supplied with the 23.5 making it difficult to raise the mast. Although expensive, I will suggest purchasing that so she has the correct tackle which to raise the mast.

This lady lives in a rural location far from the water and is attempting to raise the mast by herself. Thus I am trying to get this right. Will keep you posted.

Again thank you all for granting me time on handling this as my suspicions were correct.
Crazy Davve

Crazy Dave Condon, Thursday at 11:05 AM