Radio

Sep 25, 2008
7,096
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
The recommended coax bend radius figures are intended to ensure nominal separation between the braid and inner conductor. There are a number of reasons including loss, consistent velocity factor and impedance.

I think you guys are WAY overthinking this. If you don't want to mess with coax to the mast, put a decent antenna on your handheld radio and trash the 'rubber ducky' original equipment which is invariably inefficient.
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,096
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
This article talks about using a fixed antenna with a handheld radio. Not as good as a fixed radio but better than a handheld.

Handheld VHF Radios
If you are referring to my suggestion above, I meant a better extendable handheld antenna in lieu of the shorty rubber duck antenna supplied with the radio.

The antenna connectors typically used on handheld radios are neither designed or intended to handle the stress from even a short length of coax flopping around. They break easily and would probably doom most handhelds to a short lifetime.
 
Jul 7, 2004
8,402
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
Nope. This article is about using a fixed antenna

"Connecting a handheld radio to the boat's fix mount antenna can be very worthwhile. The fixed mount antenna is a more efficient means for radiating transmitter power than the necessarily small antenna on the radio. The added height of the fixed mount antenna will increase the "radio horizon", the distance over which you will be able to establish reliable communication. The antenna on many handhelds plug into an RF connector on the top of the set. With the antenna removed a coaxial cable connected to a fixed mount antenna can be plugged into the radio. If you elect to use this option be sure to secure the normal antenna to the radio so that it will be immediately available when it is necessary to use the set without the fixed antenna."
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,096
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
Nope. This article is about using a fixed antenna

"Connecting a handheld radio to the boat's fix mount antenna can be very worthwhile. The fixed mount antenna is a more efficient means for radiating transmitter power than the necessarily small antenna on the radio. The added height of the fixed mount antenna will increase the "radio horizon", the distance over which you will be able to establish reliable communication. The antenna on many handhelds plug into an RF connector on the top of the set. With the antenna removed a coaxial cable connected to a fixed mount antenna can be plugged into the radio. If you elect to use this option be sure to secure the normal antenna to the radio so that it will be immediately available when it is necessary to use the set without the fixed antenna."
That's the problem to which I refer - connecting a coax to an antenna connection (on a handheld) not designed or strong enough to withstand the stress. I've seen too mqany hopeless cases when people ask me to fix them.
 
Jul 7, 2004
8,402
Hunter 30T Cheney, KS
Seems to be a disagreement on doing this. I Googled "connecting fixed antenna to handheld vhf" and got several tips on doing it.

examples:
Antenna adapters connect your handheld to the ship’s antenna. This extends the range of the handheld dramatically, and is an important safety feature should your fixed radio fail. The type of adapter varies with the brand of radio: most use a BNC connector, while others use a special connector. All provide male PL-259 threads for connection to the antenna coax cable.

Range; Handhelds are limited to a transmit power of 1-6 watts and low antenna height, so range of a handheld on a small boat maybe 3-5 miles. Remember, VHF range is more dependent on antenna height and antenna length than on transmit power, so you can add significantly to your range by connecting an external antenna.
 

Sumner

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Jan 31, 2009
5,254
Macgregor & Endeavour 26S and 37 Utah's Canyon Country
This article talks about using a fixed antenna with a handheld radio. Not as good as a fixed radio but better than a handheld.

Handheld VHF Radios
The other benefit of the fixed radio if you are trying to get your signal out to someone in an emergency and you are in a remote local is that the fixed can transmit at up to 25 watts of power whereas the handhelds max are usually 5-6 watts of power for transmitting,

Sumner

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Nov 19, 2011
1,489
MacGregor 26S Hampton, VA
I didn't say I didn't want to mess with the coax at the mast. For me, and I realize we are all different, I will raise the mast 3-4 times a year at most. My boat sits in a slip all year except winter when it's at home and all stowed. I pull it out occasionally if something comes up. My concern over the coaxial comes from all this talk. Doesn't seem it should be so fragile

My point was to lean on you all's expertise and don't let me cripple the effort by putting it on the mast if I am going to screw it up by not holding my mouth right or facing west and saluting Washington. If I can mount it on the transom, I don't have to worry about someone getting shocked if they touch it (now you see my ignorance). And I will have at least better than my $90 WM hand held. (Which I am keeping). I am good with that too if you guys tell me so, although I have had slips where I pull in aft first and we come in over the laz. My current slip is not this way.

I also, and I know someone will poo poo the notion, don't want it to look like sh** either. I don't want you guys arguing. We are all here to ask for and offer assistance to each other. A community, a brethren.

I can use a cell phone on most of the Chesapeake, not all, but most, if I can't, I will be able to in 5 minutes in my experience. Heck if I fired a flare, there is not a single place on the bay that it won't be seen. It's big but populated. A situation like Sumner dealt with is unlikely on the Chesapeake bay. Not the incident but rather the inability to call for help.

I like the DSC because it may be me that is injured. I can manage plenty of signaling if it's someone else or I am capable myself. The nice thing with DSC, I can get back to dealing with the issue at hand and not spending a lot of time building smoke signals.

Our boats present a challenge that a MB, large SB's, and others don't have to deal with. I think we all get that. The bend radius is interesting and concerning that the wire is so fragile (such as a kink or smash).

I think I have the idea at this point. I can always improve on it later if need be.

With no radio experience, it's too bad we just can't use the backstay as an antenna itself. It's become increasingly apparent that VHF is a lot more complex than am/fm.

Let me thank each of you for your input and expertise. If it was a broken A/C, heat pump or gas furnace, I can fix just about anything in that world but I am smart enough to know that's a completely different world.
 
Sep 25, 2008
7,096
Alden 50 Sarasota, Florida
Seems to be a disagreement on doing this. I Googled "connecting fixed antenna to handheld vhf" and got several tips on doing it.

examples:
Antenna adapters connect your handheld to the ship’s antenna. This extends the range of the handheld dramatically, and is an important safety feature should your fixed radio fail. The type of adapter varies with the brand of radio: most use a BNC connector, while others use a special connector. All provide male PL-259 threads for connection to the antenna coax cable.

Range; Handhelds are limited to a transmit power of 1-6 watts and low antenna height, so range of a handheld on a small boat maybe 3-5 miles. Remember, VHF range is more dependent on antenna height and antenna length than on transmit power, so you can add significantly to your range by connecting an external antenna.
Both paragraphs are factually correct. No disagreement there. However, neither describes what happens over time to the connector. I lost count of how many times I've seen good handheld radios destroyed because of mechanical stress on the antenna connector.

Even if you disagree with my experience, the apparent signal gain in terms of range between an extendable handheld radio compared with an antenna 25 feet up as in the example here is minimal in most instances.

We're overthinking this.
 

walt

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Jun 1, 2007
3,511
Macgregor 26S Hobie TI Ridgway Colorado
We're overthinking this.
I dissagree and plan to mount a second antenna on the bottom of my centerboard so that Im still covered in a turtle situation.
 
Nov 26, 2012
2,315
Catalina 250 Bodega Bay CA
Doc: That is a great VHF/UHF antenna reference! I approve this msg! Happy Holidays!
Chief
 
Nov 19, 2011
1,489
MacGregor 26S Hampton, VA
Doc: That is a great VHF/UHF antenna reference! I approve this msg! Happy Holidays! Chief
Same to you Chief! Merry Christmas to all of my fellow sailors! I hope Santa is good to each of you and may good health be with all!

One thing that confuses me (one of many I sure)

How can a handheld antenna work with a hoot? I mean if the electromagnetic donut is as is spelled out, how well can the handheld work so close the the metal plate in my head. Just kidding, but I am sure I am not a lot different in that I leave the radio laying on its back in the seat next to me. This would seem to really kill the donut. Granted there are no antenna coaxial losses in a handheld and it's probably a 0dB gain antenna that has a short, fat ball for a range.

Just curious. Seems like a lot of effort goes into height, coaxial, connectors, wattage etc. really this may be considered a question that is rhetorical.
 
Nov 26, 2012
2,315
Catalina 250 Bodega Bay CA
While the handhelds antenna does present some problems be aware that the extra length/impedance ant. coil is inside the top of the radio. It is usually designed to be physically slightly longer (1/4 wavelength) than the mid freq. that the radio utilizes. Even standing up on deck with your handheld will increase the xmit/recve range of the radio. Since they only transmit barely over the horizon in VHF spectrum it is reasonable to assume that antenna placement is more critical than the wattage. If you used your handheld hooked to your elevated antenna and then the fixed radio I would bet that they will both reach out about the same.
Chief